Free will
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05-05-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Free will
Jewelarcher Wrote:God forced them to do something they didn't want to do. That's what this says anyway.
God helped them not to WASTE their time. Nobody can get to heaven by building the tower.

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05-05-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 08:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, God of the Bible never talked about free will. Interesting.

Like that has ever stopped you from lying and making shit up... Drinking Beverage

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05-05-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 08:34 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Free Will? Where is Will? We must save him!
Laugh out load Thumbsup

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05-05-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 08:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 08:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, God of the Bible never talked about free will. Interesting.

Like that has ever stopped you from lying and making shit up... Drinking Beverage


Rolleyes Drinking Beverage

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05-05-2016, 09:44 PM
RE: Free will
In my opinion, the very concept of God punishing people or ordering them to do specific tasks or adopt specific behaviors under the pain of eternal tormant is in its own way a violation of «free will». Free will is a lazy , stupid and senseless way for apologists to solve the Problem of Evil and excuse their god's atrocious behavior.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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05-05-2016, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2016 07:55 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 08:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Jewelarcher Wrote:God forced them to do something they didn't want to do. That's what this says anyway.
God helped them not to WASTE their time. Nobody can get to heaven by building the tower.

They weren't building it to get to heaven Alla. It says that in the KJV but that is a somewhat incorrect translation putting it into a bad context. They were building it in solidarity hence the phrase "lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." And the word in the text for "heaven" in hebrew means "lofty," not heaven in the sense that a christian would take it. Ask Aliza if you don't believe me. They were building a monument to solidarity. God screwed it up not because man was arrogant or anything like that.

Quote: Gen 11
6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

God is the bad guy here yet again. The people united, he divided.

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The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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06-05-2016, 05:52 AM
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 08:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, God of the Bible never talked about free will. Interesting.
It also never talks about moral agency either. That phrase is nowhere mentioned.

The truth is you have neither in such contact but you cling to the desire.

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06-05-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Free will
(05-05-2016 12:01 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  This is a great example of how God plays with someone's free will. Whenever I've brought this up to Christians they always say that Pharoah was going to say no anyway

A better verse to bring up is Exodus 7:3-4. Here, God flat-out admits what he's going to do before he does it, and the reason he's doing it:

"3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, 4 Pharaoh will not listen to you; then I will lay my hand upon Egypt and bring forth my hosts, my people the sons of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great acts of judgment."

So, he pretty obviously caused Pharaoh not to listen. Now, they could say that the "Pharaoh will not listen to you" line is God just saying what will happen, and that he didn't violate free will, but if he knows the result and lays it out ahead of time... free will in that context is pretty moot, wouldn't you say?
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06-05-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Free will
for fucks sake, its Free Willy. Why does everyone always get that wrong?
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06-05-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Free will
(06-05-2016 09:19 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  for fucks sake, its Free Willy. Why does everyone always get that wrong?
I ask myself the same question Smile

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