Free will defense is full of shit
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03-03-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Free will defense is full of shit
(03-03-2014 05:15 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The Free-Will defense also collapses because it cannot adequately explain away the massive amount of suffering we see in the animal kingdom, even by the standards used by Christian apologists to circumnavigate their god's culpability.

If you have a chance, grab a copy of The Christian Delusion, and read Chapter 9: The Darwinian Problem of Evil by John W. Loftus.

Most Christians I know don't seem particularly concerned with the treatment of animals when it comes to apologetics. I know several Christian vegetarians who are concerned with how animals are treated for commercial use, but I never hear any mentioning of it regarding apologetics.

Also, no mention of why YHWH was really obsessed with the pleasing odor from burnt offerings for several thousand years.
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03-03-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: Free will defense is full of shit
(03-03-2014 08:29 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 05:15 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The Free-Will defense also collapses because it cannot adequately explain away the massive amount of suffering we see in the animal kingdom, even by the standards used by Christian apologists to circumnavigate their god's culpability.

If you have a chance, grab a copy of The Christian Delusion, and read Chapter 9: The Darwinian Problem of Evil by John W. Loftus.

Most Christians I know don't seem particularly concerned with the treatment of animals when it comes to apologetics. I know several Christian vegetarians who are concerned with how animals are treated for commercial use, but I never hear any mentioning of it regarding apologetics.

Also, no mention of why YHWH was really obsessed with the pleasing odor from burnt offerings for several thousand years.


Well, it comes back to the omnibenevolent angle. If you draw a distinction between human and animal suffering, you destroy omnibenevolence. When you really stop and look at the big picture of nature, the prey that gets eaten alive, debilitating and lethal diseases and parasites. There is so much untold suffering that it almost impossible to imagine it, and you can't explain it all away with human souls, free-will, the fall of Adam; or any other contrivance that Christians use to excuse their creator god from the consequences of the system he supposedly created. What moral teaching can be imparted to the suffering gazelle as it's eaten alive by a lion? What greater good is behind wasp larva eating themselves out of their host from the inside out? What do these animals gain from their suffering that offsets it and leaves god with a net-positive?

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03-03-2014, 10:15 AM
Free will defense is full of shit
Dominion. Christians historically believe animals do not have souls, and were placed here for their enjoyment.

Genesis 1:26 ESV

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-03-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Free will defense is full of shit
(03-03-2014 10:15 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Dominion. Christians historically believe animals do not have souls, and were placed here for their enjoyment.

Genesis 1:26 ESV

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”


Their god forgot to mention microorganisms, and how it can be argued that they hold dominion over us in many ways.

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