Freedom and Unfreedom
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03-09-2011, 11:58 AM
 
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
Excellent point, cufflink, a new angle on the topic of freedom, indeed.

Advice from someone who has been retired for a long time: start a small business that you can pursue at your leisure (helps with the pension too). We have a small, online book business and spend a lot of time driving around the country looking for gems -- every trip is a treasure-hunt. No deadlines other than shipping orders (2-3 per day), working at home, sometimes in our pyjamas.

Another way to find structure is starting projects that have natural deadlines -- like the greenhouse I am building must be closed up before snow arrives.

Undertaking advanced education projects can give you a helluva structure -- years ago I started taking regular violin lessons to get my performer's ARCT -- have not finished it yet but, unless I do it regularly, the time and money is wasted.

You will need a little time to adjust from a steady career to total freedom but I am sure you will have the hang of it. I have been doing it for over 10 years and enjoy every minute of it.
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03-09-2011, 12:26 PM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
(03-09-2011 11:58 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  Excellent point, cufflink, a new angle on the topic of freedom, indeed.

Advice from someone who has been retired for a long time: start a small business that you can pursue at your leisure (helps with the pension too). We have a small, online book business and spend a lot of time driving around the country looking for gems -- every trip is a treasure-hunt. No deadlines other than shipping orders (2-3 per day), working at home, sometimes in our pyjamas.

Another way to find structure is starting projects that have natural deadlines -- like the greenhouse I am building must be closed up before snow arrives.

Undertaking advanced education projects can give you a helluva structure -- years ago I started taking regular violin lessons to get my performer's ARCT -- have not finished it yet but, unless I do it regularly, the time and money is wasted.

You will need a little time to adjust from a steady career to total freedom but I am sure you will have the hang of it. I have been doing it for over 10 years and enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you for the great tips, Zatamon. Much appreciated. Smile

It's not that I don't have more than enough I want to do: get back into a regular practice routine at the piano; post to my own blog more frequently; work out at the gym more regularly; finally finish reading Ulysses . . . But as an inveterate procrastinator, it's been too easy to say, "Yeah, I'll get to that tomorrow." (Of course as you get older, "tomorrow" becomes a dicier term, doesn't it. But that's another thread. Wink )

Glad you've been making excellent use of your freedom!

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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03-09-2011, 03:17 PM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
If you were hypothetically given permission by every single person on the planet (somehow) to do whatever you wanted.....facing no consequences, total and utter freedom.......would you actually feel free??? Or over time would you feel "imprisoned" and "helpless" over issues out of your control....like mortality for example???

If you reached "god status" where you was immortal and held some power of creation, shaping your reality to your desires........would you then still feel tottaly free.......or would you feel, even with all this power that there is still something beyond your control???

If you had no perception of freedom, would you be the most free???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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03-09-2011, 04:07 PM
 
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
(03-09-2011 03:17 PM)bemore Wrote:  If you had no perception of freedom, would you be the most free???

Now you are talking Buddhist philosophy. Sort of.
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03-09-2011, 04:36 PM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
(03-09-2011 04:07 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(03-09-2011 03:17 PM)bemore Wrote:  If you had no perception of freedom, would you be the most free???

Now you are talking Buddhist philosophy. Sort of.

Ha ha.....I suppose I am going down those realms.

When I look at my Landladys cats they lead a very charmed life......compared to us in perception they lead very simplistic and more instinctive lifes.....they probably dont worry about dying.....they dont worry about fighting unless confronted with it....they dont have to work......they dont have to worry/feel oppressed somehow by something......they have very primitive needs to be contented.

They have no sense of perception of freedom, justice, revenge, retribution, faith, there are a lot of things that make us human that they will never experience........however despite this absence these creatures are still alive and have there own limited perceptions........So are these creatures more free than us because they dont experience what we do, would they make any gains if they did ha ha Big Grin

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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03-09-2011, 05:09 PM
 
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
(03-09-2011 04:36 PM)bemore Wrote:  When I look at my Landladys cats they lead a very charmed life......compared to us in perception they lead very simplistic and more instinctive lifes.....they probably dont worry about dying.....they dont worry about fighting unless confronted with it....they dont have to work......they dont have to worry/feel oppressed somehow by something......they have very primitive needs to be contented.

They have no sense of perception of freedom, justice, revenge, retribution, faith, there are a lot of things that make us human that they will never experience........however despite this absence these creatures are still alive and have there own limited perceptions........So are these creatures more free than us because they dont experience what we do, would they make any gains if they did ha ha Big Grin

I will not stand for anyone calling cats primitive. Wink

I have five of them, I should know!

Cats are the smartest, sanest, funniest creatures we have the privilege to cohabit with.

Just look at how well they trained us!

We have a lot to learn from them.

For one, they have never invented religion!

For two, they know the most important things in life: eat, sleep and fornicate.

For three, they know how to make us laugh and thus make us their servants for life.

I know ours do.
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03-09-2011, 05:44 PM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
Domestic cats, because of their long association with, and tampering by, humans, are not well suited to survival in the wild. Like humans.

They understand freedom all right, and they also understand who has the can opener. It's a social contract, much like the one we, civilized humans, have: to trade some or all of our liberty for the necessities of life.

But the happiest cat is one with an open window, to come and go as he pleases.
Like retired people.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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04-09-2011, 08:06 AM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
I think you guys are right, anything that is living within a certain set of parameters is allways going to be limited.......wether it has a perception of this it calls "freedom" or not.

This is what I immediatly feel in love with this place about, you guys have no idea how long ive been looking for a place like this for open discussion over philosophical things. Food for thought or exquisite dining for my mind!!!

Would we need to devolve and follow the cats simple way of life Zatamon......when maybe we have allready once been at that primitive stage before.......so we allready have the capabilities to go there again.......we obviously just need the right enviroment.

I know that there has been a lot of movement on the planet over the last hundreds of years and that species of animals, insects and plants have been moved around, but we have what we call the balance of nature.......where i suppose there is a certain status quo .....that is however certainly very changeable.

Given that we are uniquely seperated by everything else on the planet (including the balance of nature, that we are still limited to however we have more options to overcome).....that in a sense we "rule" earth...... that this might give us our extended sense/parameters of freedom that we discuss now.

But we havent stuck to the balance of nature though??? Something that in a sense is abundant and could give us infinite choice and freedom if nutured properly.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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04-09-2011, 08:22 AM
 
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
(04-09-2011 08:06 AM)bemore Wrote:  Would we need to devolve and follow the cats simple way of life Zatamon......when maybe we have allready once been at that primitive stage before.

We humans have never been at that stage before.

The chimps are already half crazy.

Evolution should have stopped with the Bonobo apes.

Now they knew how to live: had sex from sunup till sundown and then some!

Heart
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04-09-2011, 09:05 AM
RE: Freedom and Unfreedom
It would be interesting to ask a variety of people we meet how free they consider themselves - and what they perceive as limiting their freedom.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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