Freedom of Atheism?
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12-03-2012, 07:46 AM
Freedom of Atheism?
I have a question about what freedom Atheists want people to have. not to start a debate or anything, just want to see your opinions.

So I saw a conversation between 2 people regarding homosexuality and the Atheist said there is nothing wrong with it because it doesn't harm anyone and they can do what they want. That ended up raising a few questions about how far you can take that idea. So I wanted to know your opinions on the following (i.e. if no harm is done, should they all be allowed?)

incest
animals (their consent can be not running away, they may not understand what is going on...but then again no one stops them from having sex with other animals so why not humans?)
Pedophilia
(Firstly - If child understands what is going on,
secondly, what about a child who is unable to give consent but at an older age has no problems about what happened or a child who cant give consent but no harm comes to them or anyone else )
Sex in public (basically one guy said 2 men kissing is disgusting, the other replies "they can do what they like, they are not harming you so if you find it disgusting thats your problem", could same argument be used to allow people to do their business in public?)
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12-03-2012, 09:00 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
Firstly welcome to the forum, care to make an introduction?

Secondly... sniff sniff... you religious?
I smell a cross.

Thirdly, beastiality should be illegal because an animal cannot consent.
Sex in public should be illegal because you are forcing others to watch you do something that can make people very uncomfortable. That being said I'm all for opening up places where it is acceptable like nude beaches.
Incest should only be illegal when people are underage or being forced. Not that I'm into it but what do I care if family members want to do it. P.S. The bible is all about incest.
Pedophilia should be illegal because whether a child is aware of what is going on or not, they can't honestly make an informed decision 99% of the time, so they can just wait.

And what do you think, as I hate it when someone asks an opinion but doesn't share theirs.

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12-03-2012, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2012 07:47 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
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12-03-2012, 09:35 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
incest: as long as they don't have children go ahead, but if they start making babies then some harm is done, most people don't realize that incest, in most countries, isn't allowed because of eugenic reasons and not moral ones.

animals: I must disagree with Lucradis on this one, the whole idea of consent for having sex is to protect the development of sexual maturity, animals don't have this as they don't see sex with the same complexities we do (not that I know of) so the consent would be irrelevant. But I think there may be other reasons to forbid bestiality, like public health reasons and stuff like that.

Sex in public: kissing is alright, but sex I don't think so, it would be disrespectful and maybe violent for some people, specially children.

Paedophilia: if the child can't give consent, obviously not, that rule doesn't apply only to children.
If they can give consent, then I don't see much of a problem, but this must be taken very carefully, I see there's this trend of protecting children from their own sexual nature until they're too old, like they're unable to understand sex, and that's false. As an example, in my country there's this very polemic law of sexual education, religous people didn't want it to pass because children shouldn't be learning about sex so young (we're talking about kids between 10 to 18 years old) which I think is ridiculous, on the other hand, the law and its regulation doesn't foresee any topic about homosexuality, which makes the law disciminative for gay kids.

I believe we have a very immature approach, in general, to children sexuality, we avoid taking about it as if that would make it go away. On the other hand, if we can treat this like a serious topic, and educate kids well enough, we could stop seeing a 20 yo guy dating a 15 yo girl like it was rape.

I'm not saying we should let 5 yo kids have sex with 70 yo people, that could be abusive, but we should have a more profound understanding of it so we can be able to judge every child as an individual and not as part of a category of almost human animals with no understanding of life.

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12-03-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
(12-03-2012 09:00 AM)lucradis Wrote:  And what do you think, as I hate it when someone asks an opinion but doesn't share theirs.

Um, ya. This ^

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12-03-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
(12-03-2012 07:46 AM)saka Wrote:  I have a question about what freedom Atheists want people to have. not to start a debate or anything, just want to see your opinions.

So I saw a conversation between 2 people regarding homosexuality and the Atheist said there is nothing wrong with it because it doesn't harm anyone and they can do what they want. That ended up raising a few questions about how far you can take that idea. So I wanted to know your opinions on the following (i.e. if no harm is done, should they all be allowed?)

incest
animals (their consent can be not running away, they may not understand what is going on...but then again no one stops them from having sex with other animals so why not humans?)
Pedophilia
(Firstly - If child understands what is going on,
secondly, what about a child who is unable to give consent but at an older age has no problems about what happened or a child who cant give consent but no harm comes to them or anyone else )
Sex in public (basically one guy said 2 men kissing is disgusting, the other replies "they can do what they like, they are not harming you so if you find it disgusting thats your problem", could same argument be used to allow people to do their business in public?)

Welcome!

Incest- You are right, animals don't know it's wrong. We do. Health complications, so we don't do it. This was figured out hundreds of years ago because we evolved to be smart and realize those offspring were sickly. It became a social no-no as social also evolved alongside.

Pedophilia- A child is too immature to give consent or even understand consent. NO consent is ever given, even if it appears to be given by the child because of the immaturity of children. The RESPONSIBILITY for a mature person lies with the ADULT. If a child later in life doesn't think it was wrong, it was still wrong for the adult to do and to put the child at risk.

Sex in Public- Two dudes kissing and a dude and a gal kissing are okay. Sex in public of two dudes or a dude and gal or any other combination is not okay. Why? Because sex in public is illegal, dirty and can be seen by innocent children. It is indecent exposure (just like running around nude, whether one is gay or not).


Is the real questions where do atheist get their morals? Because the answer is the society evolved with morals, and each moral choice has a reason behind it if you look closer instead of in a book.
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12-03-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
(12-03-2012 09:56 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 07:46 AM)saka Wrote:  I have a question about what freedom Atheists want people to have. not to start a debate or anything, just want to see your opinions.

So I saw a conversation between 2 people regarding homosexuality and the Atheist said there is nothing wrong with it because it doesn't harm anyone and they can do what they want. That ended up raising a few questions about how far you can take that idea. So I wanted to know your opinions on the following (i.e. if no harm is done, should they all be allowed?)

incest
animals (their consent can be not running away, they may not understand what is going on...but then again no one stops them from having sex with other animals so why not humans?)
Pedophilia
(Firstly - If child understands what is going on,
secondly, what about a child who is unable to give consent but at an older age has no problems about what happened or a child who cant give consent but no harm comes to them or anyone else )
Sex in public (basically one guy said 2 men kissing is disgusting, the other replies "they can do what they like, they are not harming you so if you find it disgusting thats your problem", could same argument be used to allow people to do their business in public?)

Welcome!

Incest- You are right, animals don't know it's wrong. We do. Health complications, so we don't do it. This was figured out hundreds of years ago because we evolved to be smart and realize those offspring were sickly. It became a social no-no as social also evolved alongside.

Pedophilia- A child is too immature to give consent or even understand consent. NO consent is ever given, even if it appears to be given by the child because of the immaturity of children. The RESPONSIBILITY for a mature person lies with the ADULT. If a child later in life doesn't think it was wrong, it was still wrong for the adult to do and to put the child at risk.

Sex in Public- Two dudes kissing and a dude and a gal kissing are okay. Sex in public of two dudes or a dude and gal or any other combination is not okay. Why? Because sex in public is illegal, dirty and can be seen by innocent children. It is indecent exposure (just like running around nude, whether one is gay or not).


Is the real questions where do atheist get their morals? Because the answer is the society evolved with morals, and each moral choice has a reason behind it if you look closer instead of in a book.

Just one thing for you to be aware of, saying "sex in public no because it's illegal" is the same as saying "because it says so in the bible" don't forget that laws are just ink on paper, and can be easily changed. Wink

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12-03-2012, 10:08 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
(12-03-2012 09:00 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Firstly welcome to the forum, care to make an introduction?

Secondly... sniff sniff... you religious?
I smell a cross.

Thirdly, beastiality should be illegal because an animal cannot consent.
Sex in public should be illegal because you are forcing others to watch you do something that can make people very uncomfortable. That being said I'm all for opening up places where it is acceptable like nude beaches.
Incest should only be illegal when people are underage or being forced. Not that I'm into it but what do I care if family members want to do it. P.S. The bible is all about incest.
Pedophilia should be illegal because whether a child is aware of what is going on or not, they can't honestly make an informed decision 99% of the time, so they can just wait.

And what do you think, as I hate it when someone asks an opinion but doesn't share theirs.

Ditto.

I agree that everything is ok as long as it doesn't harm any other person.

Definitions of harm have to be provided, you threw a pretty wild mix of things out there.

I think incest should be illegal even among consenting adults because if there is any offspring it can be a big issue for that innocent person. And I agree, the bible is full of incest.

I agree that bestiality should be illegal for many reasons: health, the animal cannot consent, and cruelty to animals.

Sex in public should be illegal unless there are places where it is specifically allowed and everyone can decide whether to go there or not. A hug and a peck on the cheek, or even a normal kiss, are not sex IMO. I don't care what gender the affectionate people are.

Pedophilia needs to be illegal, a child does not have the maturity to choose whether to do this or not. If children want to explore things - they have been looking at each other in secret for centuries. Sex is based on hormones and the instinct to procreate, children have neither. They do have curiosity and don't need adults to guide this, they need to be able to develop at their own pace.


You do sound religious - but I don't see what any of the above questions have to do with religion. They have to do with morals and ethics, not religion. You are going to find answers that are widely different, because people here tend to be blunt and honest and say what they think.

I think what you are thinking of is anarchy, not atheism.

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12-03-2012, 10:31 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
(12-03-2012 10:06 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 09:56 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 07:46 AM)saka Wrote:  I have a question about what freedom Atheists want people to have. not to start a debate or anything, just want to see your opinions.

So I saw a conversation between 2 people regarding homosexuality and the Atheist said there is nothing wrong with it because it doesn't harm anyone and they can do what they want. That ended up raising a few questions about how far you can take that idea. So I wanted to know your opinions on the following (i.e. if no harm is done, should they all be allowed?)

incest
animals (their consent can be not running away, they may not understand what is going on...but then again no one stops them from having sex with other animals so why not humans?)
Pedophilia
(Firstly - If child understands what is going on,
secondly, what about a child who is unable to give consent but at an older age has no problems about what happened or a child who cant give consent but no harm comes to them or anyone else )
Sex in public (basically one guy said 2 men kissing is disgusting, the other replies "they can do what they like, they are not harming you so if you find it disgusting thats your problem", could same argument be used to allow people to do their business in public?)

Welcome!

Incest- You are right, animals don't know it's wrong. We do. Health complications, so we don't do it. This was figured out hundreds of years ago because we evolved to be smart and realize those offspring were sickly. It became a social no-no as social also evolved alongside.

Pedophilia- A child is too immature to give consent or even understand consent. NO consent is ever given, even if it appears to be given by the child because of the immaturity of children. The RESPONSIBILITY for a mature person lies with the ADULT. If a child later in life doesn't think it was wrong, it was still wrong for the adult to do and to put the child at risk.

Sex in Public- Two dudes kissing and a dude and a gal kissing are okay. Sex in public of two dudes or a dude and gal or any other combination is not okay. Why? Because sex in public is illegal, dirty and can be seen by innocent children. It is indecent exposure (just like running around nude, whether one is gay or not).


Is the real questions where do atheist get their morals? Because the answer is the society evolved with morals, and each moral choice has a reason behind it if you look closer instead of in a book.

Just one thing for you to be aware of, saying "sex in public no because it's illegal" is the same as saying "because it says so in the bible" don't forget that laws are just ink on paper, and can be easily changed. Wink

Yes, thank you! I realized that when I posted it. I was (unclearly) making the point that the kissing isn't illegal but the sex is (sort of how they are unrelated, so why compare them) and the reason why (indecent exposure). Miss worded Smile
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12-03-2012, 10:33 AM
RE: Freedom of Atheism?
Face-palms.

I believe this is pretty funny, that is what I believe.

There are no health complications related with homosexual sex (ignores STDs). There are no children involved with (normal) homosexual sex, and there are (normally) no family members involved with homosexual sex.

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