Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
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02-12-2013, 01:29 AM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2013 01:40 AM by IndianAtheist.)
Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
Okay i just had a conversation with the user"Free" ironically... thinks that Free-will simply means freedom of choices and refuses to accept that free choice is a different term altogether and also refuses to acknowledge the various factors which affects the choice.

First off all we must establish the meaning of "Freedom" simply the ability to make choices does not necessarily imply freedom to make choices and that is the case with many of the "Free Will" arguments here.

Freedom of any choice depends highly on the circumstances you cannot say that every choice is free or else you might as well stop using the word "Free" because it prospers no meaning anymore.

"Will" is a predetermined choice made by your mind its a choice but pre-determined.

"Choice" is a simply the mere act of choosing regardless of it being a part of your personal will or not it is not predetermined.

So in an essence a will is something you personally want and a choice is something you are tasked rather then predisposed to like will.

That's why i take objection to whoever uses the word "Free will" and "Free choice" in the same sense as if they both mean the same thing when in reality you really have no control or say over your own will i cannot control my will how am i "Free" from it ?

You cannot have a "Free will" because will is a pre-determined disposition which is influenced by your instincts and other external factors... it stems from those factors so they're not "Free" in any sense.

a choice can be free in some sense but a "will" cannot be because its not just simply a matter of choice is a matter of your thought process unless you can somehow make yourself NOT have a will you cannot have a "free" will because you're still forced to have it.
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02-12-2013, 02:10 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
This quote from another forum pretty much shows the problem i have with this topic.

"The thing is, this topic of "no free will" shows up again every few months on Internet forums and wherever and they are all based on the same fallacies as has been pointed out here - people get hung up on words, terms and false logical loops. They appear unable to reach logical, rational conclusions simply because they have *themselves* confused so deeply that they can't get out of the hole they're stuck in."
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05-12-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
At the very least it behooves us to consider "will," for the most part, as a "thing." Otherwise there could be no law. Whether, legal, social, institutional, whatever, we need to atleast agree to treat such a concept as real.
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05-12-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
Yep, freedom of choice and free will are pretty much the same thing.
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06-12-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(05-12-2013 12:57 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  Yep, freedom of choice and free will are pretty much the same thing.
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Agreed.

All evidence indicates as such.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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07-12-2013, 06:34 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(06-12-2013 05:59 PM)Free Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 12:57 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  Yep, freedom of choice and free will are pretty much the same thing.
[/thread]

Agreed.

All evidence indicates as such.

Girly don't think so. Think I might got freedom of choice but discounted free will decades ago.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-12-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
You are in an ice cream parlor and you need to pick what you want.

You think it is a choice? You pick based on experience with different flavors, it is predetermined. Or, you pick one you never had before - because part of your genetic hardware makes you a risk taker. Or - you can't make up your mind, because your upbringing makes you a "doubter" - you doubt everything including or especially your own decisions.

Free choice? I think not.

Give me some practical applications of "will" and "choice".

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-12-2013, 03:29 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
"Freedom" to me means to be left alone, not necessarily to have choice. For instance, I may be a free man, living and working on my family farm. I don't have a choice to just drop everything and change my career, but I am 'free' in a sense that I am not imposed upon by others.

Free will (to me) just means the ability to discern and change your environment.
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07-12-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
I don't see a functional difference between free will and choice.

Furthermore, if one concedes that there is no free will (I don't), there is then the profound question of why we appear to have choice.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(07-12-2013 07:42 AM)Dom Wrote:  You are in an ice cream parlor and you need to pick what you want.

You think it is a choice? You pick based on experience with different flavors, it is predetermined. Or, you pick one you never had before - because part of your genetic hardware makes you a risk taker. Or - you can't make up your mind, because your upbringing makes you a "doubter" - you doubt everything including or especially your own decisions.

Free choice? I think not.

Give me some practical applications of "will" and "choice".
But you could change your mind at the last moment, and pick another flavor, despite your upbringing, genetic desposition or experience.
So you habe free choice after all.
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