Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-12-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(02-12-2013 01:29 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  a choice can be free in some sense but a "will" cannot be because its not just simply a matter of choice is a matter of your thought process unless you can somehow make yourself NOT have a will you cannot have a "free" will because you're still forced to have it.

No, they are one and the same.

Re-read your explanation, you've exposed the truth yourself. A will is an action, not an idea, while a choice is.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2013, 07:01 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(07-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't see a functional difference between free will and choice.

The choice is to open the box to see if the cat's still alive or not to open the box. Just don't think I'm the one deciding whether or not to open the box. At least not what I think of as me.

(07-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Furthermore, if one concedes that there is no free will (I don't), there is then the profound question of why we appear to have choice.

Most days I feel like Billy Pilgrim just hanging out in my frontal cortex but I'm pretty damn sure I'm just being manipulated by Kilgore Trout who lives in much deeper regions of my gulliver and gut. Not determinism. No fucking Grand Designer calling the shots. Just Kilgore Trout manipulating Girly for the good of all those critters and that ecosystem living in his gut into letting me believe I'm calling the shots.. Tongue

(07-12-2013 07:42 AM)Dom Wrote:  You are in an ice cream parlor and you need to pick what you want.

Pistachio. It's not a choice. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 01:19 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
Sam Harris' provides the best insight for this topic

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes IndianAtheist's post
08-12-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(07-12-2013 06:34 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ...
Girly don't think so. Think I might got freedom of choice but discounted free will decades ago.

Ah, yes. The joy of marriage.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
08-12-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
I think I am tired of watching Sam Harris video. He seems to take to take one simple principle and drag it out
to a one hour lecture. In any case, I still disagree with him on free will.

I cannot speak for Sam Harris, but I, for one, definitely have a free will. So far, no one has proven otherwise.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 08:08 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(08-12-2013 11:10 AM)black_squirrel Wrote:  .. but I, for one, definitely have a free will. So far, no one has proven otherwise.

Yabut, who are you?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(08-12-2013 08:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:10 AM)black_squirrel Wrote:  .. but I, for one, definitely have a free will. So far, no one has proven otherwise.

Yabut, who are you?
I'm me, the one you are writing to, and the one that is replying to you?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 08:34 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 10:53 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(07-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't see a functional difference between free will and choice.

Furthermore, if one concedes that there is no free will (I don't), there is then the profound question of why we appear to have choice.

I don't see that as being a big question. Being aware of the back and forth (should I do this, or that) in our minds doesn't necessarily make it any less deterministic.

Edit: Typo

2.5 billion seconds total
1.67 billion seconds conscious

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 09:19 PM
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
(08-12-2013 08:16 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 08:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yabut, who are you?
I'm me, the one you are writing to, and the one that is replying to you?

Yabut, who are you?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-12-2013, 03:52 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 03:56 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Freedom of Choice VS Freedom Of Will (Yes this is seriously a dilemma)
IMHO

Choice is an illusion. Free will is an illusion. We all do what we do as a direct result of physical and observable actions and reactions on the large and infinitesimally small scale that was all set forth even prior to the Big Bang. Even if you believe in true randomness in things like radiation I would still say that our actions as humans were virtually prewritten since our conception.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dark Light's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: