French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
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28-08-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
I hate to divulge this, but it's generally accepted that the "burqini" or "burkini" was invented by a purported Australian fashion designer, Aheda Zanetti. Over the past 8 years, Zanetti​ has sold 700,000 swimsuits to clients all over the world. Her designs, costing from $80 to $200, are sought out from Norway to Israel and are each made in Sydney NSW. The swimsuits she sells under the label Ahiida are full body, hooded and inspired by alleged Islamic modesty.

[Image: 1f74613e004d97b6b1ba370aeb8ad3f5e216f8b5.jpg]
Zanetti (centre) and two of her creations

I'd like to make it clear that this Zanetti person is NOT an "Australian" woman—she's Lebanese. We need to make her ethnic background more than clear in order to dispel any misguided notions that we genuine Aussies accept Islam in any way, shape or form. If I chose to live in Tripoli for whatever reasons, would I suddenly start calling myself Lebanese? Or would I forever be an Aussie? Think about it.

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28-08-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(28-08-2016 10:24 AM)SYZ Wrote:  I hate to divulge this, but it's generally accepted that the "burqini" or "burkini" was invented by a purported Australian fashion designer, Aheda Zanetti. Over the past 8 years, Zanetti​ has sold 700,000 swimsuits to clients all over the world. Her designs, costing from $80 to $200, are sought out from Norway to Israel and are each made in Sydney NSW. The swimsuits she sells under the label Ahiida are full body, hooded and inspired by alleged Islamic modesty.

[Image: 1f74613e004d97b6b1ba370aeb8ad3f5e216f8b5.jpg]
Zanetti (centre) and two of her creations

I'd like to make it clear that this Zanetti person is NOT an "Australian" woman—she's Lebanese. We need to make her ethnic background more than clear in order to dispel any misguided notions that we genuine Aussies accept Islam in any way, shape or form. If I chose to live in Tripoli for whatever reasons, would I suddenly start calling myself Lebanese? Or would I forever be an Aussie? Think about it.

If you moved to Lebanon and gained citizenship, you'd be Lebanese. You'd just also be Australian.
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28-08-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(28-08-2016 04:59 AM)DLJ Wrote:  And I wonder about this. How monolithic is it really?

Texan culture vs. New York or Boston?
Arable vs. pastoral (Cain vs. Abel)?

It was admittedly an oversimplification -- but there are many points where our culture is indeed monolithic and nationwide: language, religion, the absorption of foreign cuisines into American fusion cuisine. Our political life, enshrining the rule of law as the guidepost for it, is another case. Pop culture, another. People in New York and Texas both get to choose from the same movies to watch and songs to hear on the radio or XM. We share (depending on your race) one of three American creation stories.

Fads really show how children can be pried away from their parents' values -- my son took to wearing saggy jeans even though I find that style knuckle-headed. His friends at school, though, also had influence on him, as all friends at school do for all kids -- and kids seem to be more susceptible to pop culture than adults.
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30-08-2016, 09:31 PM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
I think I said somewhere (here maybe?) that when visiting Islamic sacred places o/s, my wife had to cover her hair, and we both removed our shoes before entering. This was not voluntary; non-compliance = no entry. We had no problem complying simply because we saw it as a mark of respect in predominantly Islamic countries.

So... as a mark of respect here in Australia—a predominantly Christian/atheist country—should we not have the right to demand the public non-wearing of the burqa or the niqab, each of which both fully or partially conceal a person's identity?

—Why two standards that both favour Islam?

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30-08-2016, 09:44 PM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(30-08-2016 09:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I think I said somewhere (here maybe?) that when visiting Islamic sacred places o/s, my wife had to cover her hair, and we both removed our shoes before entering. This was not voluntary; non-compliance = no entry. We had no problem complying simply because we saw it as a mark of respect in predominantly Islamic countries.

So... as a mark of respect here in Australia—a predominantly Christian/atheist country—should we not have the right to demand the public non-wearing of the burqa or the niqab, each of which both fully or partially conceal a person's identity?

—Why two standards that both favour Islam?

Lets turn this around a bit, how would you react if the Australian Government (being a primarily christian nation) made wearing a crucifix mandatory? Or banned the wearing of Atheist shirts because they offend all religious people?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-08-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(28-08-2016 10:24 AM)SYZ Wrote:  I hate to divulge this, but it's generally accepted that the "burqini" or "burkini" was invented by a purported Australian fashion designer, Aheda Zanetti. Over the past 8 years, Zanetti​ has sold 700,000 swimsuits to clients all over the world. Her designs, costing from $80 to $200, are sought out from Norway to Israel and are each made in Sydney NSW. The swimsuits she sells under the label Ahiida are full body, hooded and inspired by alleged Islamic modesty.

[Image: 1f74613e004d97b6b1ba370aeb8ad3f5e216f8b5.jpg]
Zanetti (centre) and two of her creations

I'd like to make it clear that this Zanetti person is NOT an "Australian" woman—she's Lebanese. We need to make her ethnic background more than clear in order to dispel any misguided notions that we genuine Aussies accept Islam in any way, shape or form. If I chose to live in Tripoli for whatever reasons, would I suddenly start calling myself Lebanese? Or would I forever be an Aussie? Think about it.

Syz, I'm... pretty sure this is prejudice. If she's an Australian citizen she's got as much right as you to call herself Aussie. What the fuck is a "genuine Aussie"?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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31-08-2016, 12:40 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(30-08-2016 09:44 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-08-2016 09:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  —Why two standards that both favour Islam?

Lets turn this around a bit, how would you react if the Australian Government (being a primarily christian nation) made wearing a crucifix mandatory? Or banned the wearing of Atheist shirts because they offend all religious people?

Our Federal government is completely secular, and all its parliamentary decisions and legislation is decided in a secular manner. You're conflating the government and its people by erroneously implying we're all Christian. We have total separation of church and state, and Christianity is no longer the majority religion anyway. (Your arguments about mandatory wearing of crucifixes and the hypothetical banning of atheist T-shirts are disingenuous.)

—And you haven't really addressed the thrust of my question; you've just posed another one.

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31-08-2016, 12:58 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(30-08-2016 11:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2016 10:24 AM)SYZ Wrote:  I hate to divulge this, but it's generally accepted that the "burqini" or "burkini" was invented by a purported Australian fashion designer, Aheda Zanetti. Over the past 8 years, Zanetti​ has sold 700,000 swimsuits to clients all over the world. Her designs, costing from $80 to $200, are sought out from Norway to Israel and are each made in Sydney NSW. The swimsuits she sells under the label Ahiida are full body, hooded and inspired by alleged Islamic modesty.

I'd like to make it clear that this Zanetti person is NOT an "Australian" woman—she's Lebanese. We need to make her ethnic background more than clear in order to dispel any misguided notions that we genuine Aussies accept Islam in any way, shape or form. If I chose to live in Tripoli for whatever reasons, would I suddenly start calling myself Lebanese? Or would I forever be an Aussie? Think about it.

Syz, I'm... pretty sure this is prejudice. If she's an Australian citizen she's got as much right as you to call herself Aussie. What the fuck is a "genuine Aussie"?

Nope, not at all. It's just an expression of my extreme dislike of confrontational religious intervention in the affairs of our Aussie society. And I have to disagree; there's no way Zanetti can describe herself as a genuine Aussie. If she were she wouldn't be making Islamic religious clothing for Muslims the world over. And neither would she be effectively assisting bigoted Imams into forcing young women into wearing clothes totally inappropriate for Australian conditions—and in a constitutionally secular country.

—From the gist of your comments, I can only assume that you agree with not banning Muslims wearing their religious garb in public? And if so why?

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31-08-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(31-08-2016 12:58 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Nope, not at all. It's just an expression of my extreme dislike of confrontational religious intervention in the affairs of our Aussie society. And I have to disagree; there's no way Zanetti can describe herself as a genuine Aussie. If she were she wouldn't be making Islamic religious clothing for Muslims the world over. And neither would she be effectively assisting bigoted Imams into forcing young women into wearing clothes totally inappropriate for Australian conditions—and in a constitutionally secular country.
Er... she's making a clothing line. And anyone is free to buy it, not just Muslims. If people were being forced into wearing ... I don't know... formal shirts, would you a. ban formal shirts or b. target the bastards doing the forcing? And this focus on whether or not she's a "genuine" Aussie to me... smells like "No true Christian...".

Quote:—From the gist of your comments, I can only assume that you agree with not banning Muslims wearing their religious garb in public? And if so why?
Because I believe in freedom of expression? Is that... like... not good enough? Who the fuck am I or anyone else to tell someone else what they can wear? Has anyone ever told *you* what you can or can't wear?

"Why NOT ban Muslims from wearing their religious garb in public?" is that... I mean... to me that's totally backwards. If you can show a reason why you *should*, then maybe I'll agree that it's OK. But it's gotta be a good reason. I've argued on this before and no one in the other thread showed me anything that I could accept. Sure, I might be stubborn and I'm one guy but I do believe that I will change my mind if there is a good solid argument.

In case you haven't noticed the French burkini ban was turned over in court.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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31-08-2016, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2016 02:05 AM by SYZ.)
RE: French Birkini (Dance's and Revs' threads merged)
(30-08-2016 11:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... Syz, I'm... pretty sure this is prejudice. If she's an Australian citizen she's got as much right as you to call herself Aussie. What the fuck is a "genuine Aussie"?

Nope, not at all. It's just an expression of my extreme dislike of confrontational religious intervention in the affairs of our Aussie society. And I have to disagree; there's no way Zanetti can describe herself as a genuine Aussie. If she were she wouldn't be making Islamic religious clothing for Muslims the world over. And neither would she be effectively assisting bigoted Imams into forcing young women into wearing clothes totally inappropriate for Australian conditions—and in a constitutionally secular country.

—From the gist of your comments, I can only assume that you agree with not banning Muslims wearing their religious garb in public? And if so why?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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