From Deism to Atheism
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09-05-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 07:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  There are definitely scenarios where 2 + 2 = 4 is flat out wrong.

Yet, there are no scenarios in which a man's preference for blondes over brunettes is flat out wrong.
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09-05-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 08:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 07:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  There are definitely scenarios where 2 + 2 = 4 is flat out wrong.

Yet, there are no scenarios in which a man's preference for blondes over brunettes is flat out wrong.

Your preference for inserting your head into your rectum isn't wrong per se... Consider

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-05-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 09:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your preference for inserting your head into your rectum isn't wrong per se... Consider

touché
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09-05-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 09:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your preference for inserting your head into your rectum isn't wrong per se... Consider

touché

Well, I'll admit your ability to stay calm under fire is impressive. I shall withdraw until tomorrow, when I will return to taunt you a second time.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-05-2015, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 09:44 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 07:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 04:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why do people keep using arithmetic as an example of objective truth. It is not. Arithmetic is relative to its radix. It is just as easy to show that 2+2=10 or 2+2=11 as it is to show that 2+2=4. Use of 2+2=4 as an example of objective truth diminishes the entire argument. Makes me think you don't appreciate the difference between "objective" and "relative".

The only distinction being made here, is between relative/subjective amounting to no more than a series of likes and dislikes, like musical preferences, fashion and food taste.

You mean like numeric base preferences. "What would you prefer tonight dear, base 3, base 4, or base 10?" "Depends, what are we gonna do?" If you're going to keep trying to use mathematics to argue objective or universal truths you are going to fail. All mathematics is relative to the symbols, axioms, and inference rules of some formal system. But it is fun to watch you try.

#sigh
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09-05-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 09:33 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 07:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The only distinction being made here, is between relative/subjective amounting to no more than a series of likes and dislikes, like musical preferences, fashion and food taste.

You mean like numeric base preferences. "What would you prefer tonight dear, base 3, base 4, or base 10?" "Depends, what are we gonna do?" If you're going to keep trying to use mathematics to argue objective or universal truths you are going to fail. All mathematics are relative to the symbols, axioms, and inference rules of some logical system. But it is fun to watch you try.

So what is your argument here, that morality is relative like math is relative?

Or relative like one's likes and dislikes are relative, like musical taste are relative?

Or do you think that math and musical taste are relative in the same way?

I mean there's factual relativism too. But i'm not sure if that's what you're trying to suggest here.
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09-05-2015, 09:47 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 10:04 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 09:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 09:33 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You mean like numeric base preferences. "What would you prefer tonight dear, base 3, base 4, or base 10?" "Depends, what are we gonna do?" If you're going to keep trying to use mathematics to argue objective or universal truths you are going to fail. All mathematics are relative to the symbols, axioms, and inference rules of some logical system. But it is fun to watch you try.

So what is your argument here, that morality is relative like math is relative?

Or relative like one's likes and dislikes are relative, like musical taste are relative?

Or do you think that math and musical taste are relative in the same way?

I mean there's factual relativism too. But i'm not sure if that's what you're trying to suggest here.

That there are no objective truths or meaning. Everything is relative. If you can't find it in mathematics, where you gonna look?

#sigh
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09-05-2015, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 10:10 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 09:47 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That there are no objective truths or meaning. Everything is relative.

Okay, I got you, you're a factual relativist.
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09-05-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 10:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 09:47 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That there are no objective truths or meaning. Everything is relative.

Okay, I got you, you're a factual relativist.

Nihilist is more accurate but factual relativist works if you understand that better.

#sigh
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09-05-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 10:07 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 10:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Okay, I got you, you're a factual relativist.

Nihilist is more accurate but factual relativist works if you understand that better.

You should perhaps try and convince Stevil of this. He's already with you, on the moral argument, and perhaps he'd be better off getting a push from you into the factual realm, and be entirely consistent.

I tried and failed to do this:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid774442
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