From Deism to Atheism
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09-05-2015, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 10:51 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 10:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 10:07 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Nihilist is more accurate but factual relativist works if you understand that better.

You should perhaps try and convince Stevil of this. He's already with you, on the moral argument, and perhaps he'd be better off getting a push from you into the factual realm, and be entirely consistent.

I tried and failed to do this:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid774442

Your link, it no work. Don't matter 'cause I ain't interested in pushing my metaphysics on anybody else. Wouldn't push them on my worst enemies. I ain't pretending to be Socrates trying to apply the Socratic method to my interactions here. That's your role. SaintEvil is on his own.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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09-05-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 07:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 02:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It defies all known physics to consider that there is a moral fabric purveying all of time and space. It defies all known physics to consider I have a special magical connection to this moral fabric.

And you believe that in order for moral facts to exists, for moral realism to be true, it would require something that defies all known physics?
I don't see what mechanism could be used to carry objective moral facts and I don's see what mechanism could be used for a human to know what these facts are.

(09-05-2015 07:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:I don't believe in moral justice. I have no desire to be good.

You don't desire to be a good husband, or a good father? To be fair, to be kind, loyal, honest, dependable, respectful, caring, in regards your family at least?
Why do you associate good with honesty, with loyalty, with caring?
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10-05-2015, 06:10 AM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(09-05-2015 06:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
Quote:You don't desire to be a good husband, or a good father? To be fair, to be kind, loyal, honest, dependable, respectful, caring, in regards your family at least?
Why do you associate good with honesty, with loyalty, with caring?

Because those are virtues, concepts already associated with good, the general concepts associated with terms like a "good" person, a "good" father. Even at an elementary level, like the good characters in Disney movies, as opposed to the villains.

The concept of good encapsulates these various aspects.

And I'm guessing even if you have a problem with the term good, you do desire to be these things?

(09-05-2015 06:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't see what mechanism could be used to carry objective moral facts and I don's see what mechanism could be used for a human to know what these facts are.

It couldn't be accounted for by Darwinism? By countless years of genetic mutations, and natural selection?
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10-05-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(10-05-2015 06:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 06:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Why do you associate good with honesty, with loyalty, with caring?

Because those are virtues, concepts already associated with good, the general concepts associated with terms like a "good" person, a "good" father. Even at an elementary level, like the good characters in Disney movies, as opposed to the villains.

The concept of good encapsulates these various aspects.

And I'm guessing even if you have a problem with the term good, you do desire to be these things?
No I don't desire to be these things. I walk around with my eyes open rather than operate like a coddled child. Honesty, loyalty, caring are things that privileged people with childish ideals aim for.

People in general aim to better their lot in life. They aim to pay the bills, to get a mate, to get stuff, to make friends, to have fun, to experience life.

If being loyal and honest and caring helps towards those goals then so be it.
(10-05-2015 06:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 06:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't see what mechanism could be used to carry objective moral facts and I don's see what mechanism could be used for a human to know what these facts are.

It couldn't be accounted for by Darwinism? By countless years of genetic mutations, and natural selection?
That's right, evolution and genetics do not account for moral facts, physics doesn't account for moral facts. I don't understand why you choose to believe in them. I don't.

Evolution does account for an aspect of behaviour. And memes and culture also accounts for an aspect of behaviour as does the various situations and goals and believes that people have.

Morality isn't behaviour. It is a belief system as to what is believed to be right and what is believed to be wrong. It is used as an inner explanation or justification by some people as to why they may make one choice over another even though the immediate thought might be that the choice that is beneficial (in someway) for the group may be detrimental (in some way) for the self.
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