From Deism to Atheism
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26-04-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 01:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 01:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  Wrong. Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods - there is no belief to defend, there is no claim.

Except of course atheists who hold beliefs in regards to Gods non-existence, and a variety of thing that follow from these beliefs.

Quote:Citation required. Really. If you don't supply one, you have forfeited any credibility you might have had.

I used this article for the 1 in 5: http://thehumanist.com/news/religion/do-...ve-in-god.

But it appears from the actual Pew site, it's 14%:

"Although the literal definition of “atheist” is “a person who believes that God does not exist,” according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 14% of those who call themselves atheists also say they believe in God or a universal spirit. "

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-atheists/

So, not 1 in 5. Drinking Beverage

Also, the article does not show what the questions were nor what the answers that they are interpreting to mean a belief in God were.

And anyone who claims to both be an atheist and to believe in God needs remedial English.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-04-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 12:52 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  I was a nonbeliever by the time I entered high school. However, it wasn't until years later that my study of science, religion, and mythology led to my current atheism.

What was the difference between this "nonbeliever" period, and your later atheism?
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26-04-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 01:47 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Can you please explain what those beliefs are?? No, I mean it. Can you actually answer a direct question? Give us a list....3 will do....it's that easy.

It could be a variety of beliefs, like Gods are imaginary, they are delusions. That there is no Creator, and therefore we we're not a part of any created order.

While theists often hold a variety of beliefs dependent on there being a God of some sort, many atheists tend to hold beliefs that are dependent on their not being one, like ontological naturalism.
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26-04-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 02:04 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 01:47 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Can you please explain what those beliefs are?? No, I mean it. Can you actually answer a direct question? Give us a list....3 will do....it's that easy.

It could be a variety of beliefs, like Gods are imaginary, they are delusions. That there is no Creator, and therefore we we're not a part of any created order.

While theists often hold a variety of beliefs dependent on there being a God of some sort, many atheists tend to hold beliefs that are dependent on their not being one, like ontological naturalism.

So, a raft of suppositions that YOU think we might hold, but none that every atheist does. The only thing you can say about atheists is that they don't believe in god.

I believe Chelsea will win the EPL this year. Is that part of my atheism?
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26-04-2015, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2015 02:22 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 02:15 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  So, a raft of suppositions that YOU think we might hold, but none that every atheist does. The only thing you can say about atheists is that they don't believe in god.

Who said anything about every atheist? I can't even say every atheist doesn't believe in God, because apparently 14% of them do.
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26-04-2015, 02:30 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2015 03:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 02:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Who said anything about every atheist? I can't even say every atheist doesn't believe in God, because apparently 14% of them do.

The Pew survey question was "Belief in God or a Universal Spirit". Way to muddy the waters Pew. The phrasing of that question says nothing about the percentage of atheists who believe in God. It can't, by design and shit. All it tells us is that Mr. Woofs wander amongst us. Not particularly notable.

#sigh
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26-04-2015, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2015 02:45 PM by Matt Finney.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
Tomasia,

I'm going to keep this short (I'm short on time) and hit on a few different points, so I hope this still remains clear.

1. It comes down to faith. If we define faith as belief without evidence, then only fools have faith.

2. If there is no good evidence to believe in the existence of something, then we should remain agnostic about the existence of said thing.

3. It is true that not all atheists claim to be agnostic about he existence of God (foolishly I would argue), but ALL agnostics are indeed atheists.

4. To say that 1 in 5 atheists hold a belief in God, is only to say that 1 in 5 atheists are mislabeling themselves. That's all that it could possibly say.

5. There is no reason to believe in a God, and there is no reason to believe in an objective morality. No 2 people have the same set of morals. Even if there is an objective morality, it's pointless to talk about because no one knows it. Let me say this in another way. Morality, in humans, is entirely subjective, that is WHY no 2 people share the same morals.

I know this post is a little scattered, please read it carefully and slowly and tell me where you have a problem.
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26-04-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 02:33 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  2. If there is no good evidence to believe in the existence of something, then we should remain agnostic about the existence of said thing.

Matt, excellent post. But I'm troubled by point 2 (as, of course, you will have guessed).

Consider the two following statements

1) God exists
2) 70 foot tall pink unicorns exist

I can't disprove either; both are possible. I see no good evidence that either is true. But should I be agnostic to both? And should I be "equally" agnostic towards both statements? If so, why? If not, why?
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26-04-2015, 03:10 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2015 03:15 PM by Dom.)
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 02:04 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 01:47 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Can you please explain what those beliefs are?? No, I mean it. Can you actually answer a direct question? Give us a list....3 will do....it's that easy.

It could be a variety of beliefs, like Gods are imaginary, they are delusions. That there is no Creator, and therefore we we're not a part of any created order.

While theists often hold a variety of beliefs dependent on there being a God of some sort, many atheists tend to hold beliefs that are dependent on their not being one, like ontological naturalism.

I equate believing with assuming. Faith is something different, something stronger.

I don't believe/assume there is a god.

I neither have faith that there is a god nor that there is no god.

I also went through 50 years of my life as an unbeliever. I just identified as atheist a few years ago.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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26-04-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: From Deism to Atheism
(26-04-2015 03:10 PM)Dom Wrote:  I neither have faith that there is a god nor that there is no god.


You're just wrong, buddy!!!! God is a Dobermann!!!!

I'm a Doberfreak!!! I believe in Dobergod.

My vey large, very gentle Dobey is lying next to me as a type.

I love that big lump. sweetest dog in the universe.
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