Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
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21-06-2015, 06:22 AM
Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
I was a listening to a great YouTube video recently critiquing presuppostional apologetics, and I think it "hit the nail on the head" about a major fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics. These apologists like Sye B will say, "Well how do you know your senses are reliable? That's circular reasoning." I mean, my understanding is that he'd admit belief in God as a presupposition is also circular, but he'd see no problem with it because God is God and is just appealing to God's authority, thus it's circular. Whatever.

But the fundamental problem is: how do you know any of these claims about God, what the bible says, etc? By reading the Bible with my eyes, my vision, my sense of sight...or hearing the Bible preached with my ears, my sense of hearing. Therefore, a deceiver like Sye tries to hide the fact that his most basic presupposition is also the reliability of his senses like anyone else, and therefore, he's just arguing against himself and thus contradicting himself and lying that he has some other starting point than the reliability of his senses.
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21-06-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
I think it’s even more circular then that. Sye, and others, claim that their God is real because they are convinced he is in their hearts (thus no need of senses yet). Their conviction is also the proof that God is real else they wouldn't have such conviction. Since God is real, he allows them to read his words perfectly in the Bible by preventing their senses to be fooled. The Bible is the absolute Truth because it’s the never changing word of God. Sye knows everything that needs to be known. We all know God exist because we know the concept in our heart. We just love our sins. Checkmate atheist!!!!! There is a lot of platonic logic in there. Things can exist in reality and have an impact on it simply if we can imagine it. Which would also allow magic, fairies, time-travel, etc. to exist. Presuppositionalism works on the power of imagination.
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21-06-2015, 08:40 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
They are unworthy of debate. Ignore them.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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21-06-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
The fundamental problem is this...

"Lets presuppose this is true."

It doesn't matter if it is or not, but if we presuppose it is true, then it must be true. If it were false we wouldn't be able to presuppose it in the first place. God wouldn't allow us to presuppose something that is false.

My logic is circular because circles are perfect.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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21-06-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
When you get into the heads of pressuppositionalists, you understand why they behave and argue like they do.

They believe either that everyone has received an indisputable revelation of God's existence (due to some passage in... Romans? I think?), or that such a revelation is pending and that the person should be prepared for it. Either way, they themselves have received that revelation.

Because of this revelation, they don't need to prove God's existence to themselves, or to anyone else. God has done or will do this. Their job is to go completely on the offense and tear down the mindsets that compete with a Christian world view and can help a person remain in "denial" about the revelation. God will then tag in and handle the problem of actually establishing the theistic position. Their basic framework for this tactic is that everyone either presupposes that God exists or that God doesn't, and they then try to attack the pressuppositions of the latter. (Presupposing neither and letting evidence guide to an answer isn't an option that registers with them.) When they assert that they know because they know because they know, it's not meant to prove anything. It's meant to shut down that avenue of conversation so that they can steer things back to their actual mission of tearing apart the competing world views.

I haven't had an opportunity to argue with a pressuppositionalist lately. One thing I've been meaning to ask is how a person can distinguish between a revelation from God and a sufficiently tricky con of Satan, or Loki, or whoever.
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21-06-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
If you're an alcoholic trying to stay dry... you try to stay away from drunks.
***

That Sye guy is a dick.
He's trying to tell everyone what he has decided they are allowed to think: start with god and you end up with god.
Complete circular dick.

A waste of your time. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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21-06-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(21-06-2015 08:40 AM)Banjo Wrote:  They are unworthy of debate. Ignore them.

This is how I feel as well. I haven't even tried to understand their background other than the tip of the iceberg which I reject whole heartedly.

**Crickets** -- God
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21-06-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
They are level 5 butthole lickers who likely know they are full of shit and just making a profit. They know their argument is circular and that their logic is flawed but they do maintain the ability to think with reason and logic so they can't be unaware of how full of shit they are. And that just makes them liars.
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27-06-2015, 07:59 PM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
I will give explanation that is not circular. Just ask.
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27-06-2015, 09:42 PM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(27-06-2015 07:59 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I will give explanation that is not circular. Just ask.

Bring it pops. The intellect of most of our regulars here make me look like a retard eating spaghetti but I bet I can still tea bag your BS explanation.
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