Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
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28-06-2015, 09:38 PM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
I will attrmp to transfer said discussion to new thread on this board give me a few
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28-06-2015, 09:46 PM
Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
[quote name="popsthebuilder" post=1080467 timestamp=1435530250]
pops--God communicates in many ways.
Mike--I have yet to have any communication from god.  I would think a god who cared if we knew he was god would make it abundantly clear what he was and what he wanted.  So far, nothing.

pops--We have become deaf due to societal normality which is barely linked to true right at all. Tone deaf if you will.
Mike--So, at one time 'we' were not tone deaf to god.  When was that?  And I think you are wrong about society.  Our 'moral' system is developed by each society through the evolutionary process.  It is not a set of rules laid down by some god.

pops--We base our personal views on what is deemed ok by others in that same group. If you look at the bigger picture you will see that we are not in harmony with any other existence at all. We are the kings of this world and run it as such in regards to all life. With no regard to existence as a whole. We are oblivious to reality and live in our own little world that revolves around us. But contrary to this confusion we know that it is us that orbits the bigger picture, not the other way around.
MIke--not quite sure what it is you are trying to say.  What is this 'bigger' picture?  On one hand you say we are oblivious to reality, yet we know that we actually orbit the bigger picture, not the other way around....??  It has to be one way or the other.  And what does that mean???

pops--The Old Testament for the most part rang really true for me. If you isolate it from the more so manipulated New Testament and take it as metaphor for the most part then I'm sure you could find a lot of stuff you can relate to.
Mike--How is the NT more manipulated than the OT???? Both are very heavily manipulated--neither make much sense, either literally or allegorically.  If this is the best god can do as a writer, then he flunks writing 1-A!  Please tell me what is not manipulated in the OT?  What in the OT is true??  Nothing I can read. 


 pops--Yah isn't  speaking of direct vengeance but more of personal hell on earth do to the wrong desicions that we are capable of. Eternal damnation can be seen as your self upon death joining evil at its root for all eternity. I simplify this more by referring to it as negative energy. That we add or shift from the good or chaitic energy.
Mike--You lost me.  Except that when I die, that is all there is.  Eternal sleep.  No other life, no different life.  Both your heaven and hell are simply your wishful thinking.

[/quote]
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28-06-2015, 09:47 PM
Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
No communication due to lack of real attempt.

We have never been completely in touch with our obviouse connection to creation.

Not all are oblivious.
Only those that haven't made the connection yet.

The bigger picture can be described as our very real connection to all other creation and the galactically unique gift that we have in the ability to not simply obey the order as all other things do, but to help it.

The Old Testament has been translated, so yes it could be flawed. Maybe that is why Yah is perceived so negatively.
It shows good moral standards in a lot of stuff it says, not all.

When we die our material containment releases us for we are energy , and return from whence we acted out.




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28-06-2015, 09:50 PM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
None of that is anything but your opinion.
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28-06-2015, 11:27 PM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
Dear "Popsthebuilder".

Please stop just tying words at us and please try to start engaging in the questions we put to you.

I understand that English may not be your first language and that having multiple posters coming at you might feel over whelming. If the former, I hope we can help with your learning of said language of the latter, please just let us know and I'm sure we can all come to abetter arranged amount of posts and such.

Looking forwards to your delineation of deity.

Also, your definitions about the space stuff? Yeah, you also might want to look up on a lot of that. As for the life thing? Life as we know it can and does exist with out the Sun.

Much cheers to all.
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29-06-2015, 06:18 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(28-06-2015 09:47 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  When we die our material containment releases us for we are energy , and return from whence we acted out.

Please provide any evidence you have that any coherent energy is released at death and that it goes anywhere. Do you have anything more than wishful thinking?

All the evidence I have seen shows that the pattern of matter and energy that makes up who we are is disrupted at death and ceases to exist. The statement "we are energy" is, as far as I can tell, nonsense.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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29-06-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(28-06-2015 01:06 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 11:29 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Banjo. Please be a little more specific. If you just want to read what I think without an actual question for me to apply thought to then I suggest downloading tapatalk and searching posts by popsthebuilder. I really will explain anything I can. It is just too late for me to go writing a whole lot of stuff that may not even pertain to you. The fact that you show real curiosity is a start and I commend you in taking that step.

Please explain the nature, existence and origin of the god or gods to whom you refer.

Is that clear enough?


Damn I have to quote myself as pops still has yet to answer my questions.

Pops, now is your chance.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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29-06-2015, 06:27 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
So the energy that makes us is disrupted upon physical death, but the concept is nonsense to you. How can you assert an opinion on a topic if you can't even relate. There you go playing dodge the bullet again. Earlier you agreed with that everything is energy. Now you claim it is not once again because science doesn't have the answer. If you only knew how asinine that actually sounds.
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29-06-2015, 06:29 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(29-06-2015 06:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So the energy that makes us is disrupted upon physical death, but the concept is nonsense to you. How can you assert an opinion on a topic if you can't even relate. There you go playing dodge the bullet again. Earlier you agreed with that everything is energy. Now you claim it is not once again because science doesn't have the answer. If you only knew how asinine that actually sounds.

Just answer the damned question. It was you who said you had the answers. As yet all we have seen is avoidance and misdirection.

Kindly answer my questions coherantly and with proof to back your claims.

Pretty damned simple really.

Or, have you got nothing?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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29-06-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Fundamental problem with presuppostional apologetics
(29-06-2015 06:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So the energy that makes us is disrupted upon physical death, but the concept is nonsense to you. How can you assert an opinion on a topic if you can't even relate. There you go playing dodge the bullet again. Earlier you agreed with that everything is energy. Now you claim it is not once again because science doesn't have the answer. If you only knew how asinine that actually sounds.

You still have reading comprehension problems. I did not say that the energy is disrupted. I said that the pattern of matter and energy that makes us who we are is disrupted. The pattern. Not the energy.

As for dodging, you are obviously a master at it. Please provide the evidence you have that "we are energy" and that that energy is released and actually goes somewhere. I'll be waiting.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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