Fundamentalists are hypocrites
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08-11-2013, 02:02 AM
RE: Fundamentalists are hypocrites
(08-11-2013 01:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  He should accept or reject the model not on the basis that the math works or doesn't. Instead he should accept or reject the model on the amount of utility it provides.

Agreed. A heliocentric solar system and Newton's calculus are much better models than epicycles, but that doesn't negate that epicycles did work within their limits (you could predict the position of Mars in the night sky to a certain degree of accuracy).

But the math for our current models does work within limits, it's just that the limits of our modern models are far expanded from what was even imagined to be possible when the stories of the Bible were conceived.

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08-11-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Fundamentalists are hypocrites
BTW, it's a she. I hate pink but I'm gonna post a frilly pink avatar so we are all on the same page in the use of pronouns. Tongue

I'm going to come right out and admit that I don't have the mathematical tools yet to talk intelligently about quantum theory. I've only just been introduced to first order differential equations, and the types of math I need are still a year off or so. I'll come back then and we can talk. I've only been given a general overview, and know enough to know I don't like it. I'm half convinced quantum physicists are out to piss off regular physicists and engineers. I can just see them, sitting around wearing black robes going "Good, let the hate flow through you."

Perhaps I should clarify. I understand that no mathematical model works absolutely. I have a page here of equations that only work on atomic scales, and another for when we deal with every day situations (I had a test, I'm sick so I'm staying home). Some of the values blow up when your numbers get too big, so we need to use different formulas, and some get wrong answers. I don't toss out the equations though, since they work in their applied field. I don't see divergences in equations as problems with the model, simply an expression of a limit of the model or a place where something else is going on.
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08-11-2013, 09:12 AM
RE: Fundamentalists are hypocrites
(08-11-2013 07:51 AM)natachan Wrote:  I'm going to come right out and admit that I don't have the mathematical tools yet to talk intelligently about quantum theory. I've only just been introduced to first order differential equations, and the types of math I need are still a year off or so. I'll come back then and we can talk. I've only been given a general overview, and know enough to know I don't like it. I'm half convinced quantum physicists are out to piss off regular physicists and engineers. I can just see them, sitting around wearing black robes going "Good, let the hate flow through you."

I say, I resemble that remark.

(08-11-2013 07:51 AM)natachan Wrote:  Perhaps I should clarify. I understand that no mathematical model works absolutely. I have a page here of equations that only work on atomic scales, and another for when we deal with every day situations (I had a test, I'm sick so I'm staying home). Some of the values blow up when your numbers get too big, so we need to use different formulas, and some get wrong answers. I don't toss out the equations though, since they work in their applied field. I don't see divergences in equations as problems with the model, simply an expression of a limit of the model or a place where something else is going on.

All models are imperfect. Well, so far as we know. This by no stretch of the imagination makes them somehow equivalent! Which is what some special people will try to argue.

Outdated theories are those for which we found more accurate/applicable/fundamental etc alternatives. Modern theories are those which as of yet have not been so superseded. So there's that.

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