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12-06-2014, 10:06 AM
Future
I've been planning to make this thread for a long time now, but one thing or another has always kept me from going through with it. Well, there's not going to an excuse this time, so here it is.

As many of you know, I started studying sociology and statistics at a nearby university last year. The thing is, I haven't attended my classes in several months now because I realized that I don't like the subject after all. The one and only reason why I haven't quit my studies by now is because I have yet to find an alternative. I was going to study psychology originally, but it remains inaccessible for me due to the strict standards of admission. One of the major problems with finding a job - any job - is that I'm a very introverted person. I've been to a job interview before and it was a nightmare for me. Almost every job that has a moderate level of customer interaction (which would be a majority of them) is a no-go for me; the same goes for jobs that require you to have a bachelor's degree (or higher) because I'm not interested enough in any of the possible subjects to force myself through a minimum of three years of tenuous learning and studying. All I'm left with, then, are low-requirement, low-income jobs and those that require you to complete an apprenticeship (most of which I'm not interested in). I don't plan on having kids - ever - so the least I would need to earn would have to be enough so I can live on my own or with a partner who may or may not work herself.

In addition to all this, while I don't lack for discipline or willpower, I've been having a massive motivation problem my entire life. I've tried to get more physically active at several points in my life, for example, and for one reason or another, I have failed every single time, without exception. One of the primary reasons is that the thing which gives me motivation is often tied to something that lasts only temporarily. I've tried to do it for a former partner, for instance, but when the relationship ended, my motivation vanished with it and everything I had achieved up until that point was destroyed in the months of inactiveness that followed. Any time I try to make a change, I can't bring myself to stick with it for a lasting time and end up more miserable with each failure. I know that I can't do this for myself because I don't really care enough. I can't seem to find motivation from within, a reason that is meaningful and permanent. It's become so much of a burden that I've been thinking about giving up all together lately. The fact that I'm a pessimist at heart and view everything as ultimately meaningless hasn't exactly helped with this problem.

I'm frustrated with myself and my life and I don't know how to solve these problems on my own. I really don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do.

A couple hours before I wrote this post, I thought about it all and had a severe anxiety attack that still hasn't worn off. It has been a bit therapeutic to write all this, though.

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12-06-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: Future
Sometimes just typing it all out helps a lot more than we expect it to. Have you ever considered becoming an editor? Seems like the perfect career path for you. I'm serious, there's minimal interaction with other people. It's the perfect job for introverted people and you've already got the skills for it.

If you ever figure out a motivation for exercise besides having a partner, please clue me in.

Hug Hug

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12-06-2014, 02:17 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 02:22 PM by kim.)
RE: Future
(12-06-2014 10:38 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  If you ever figure out a motivation for exercise besides having a partner, please clue me in.
Hug Hug

I want to know that too. I have no motivation whatsoever. I'm beginning to be quite disturbed by my own slack. Sadcryface
***

I also have sometimes found that any random interaction can range anywhere between uncomfortable to extremely difficult or even nightmarish. This may happen for no apparent reason but admittedly, I'm older and I've gotten used to it. Frequently, I have no choice but to slap on a smile and pretend that I love whatever is going on. I have to think of it as a challenge to just get through the day because often, just getting through the day is my only challenge. It sucks that I don't feel challenged while simultaneously, I feel overwhelmed! WTF?!?
A.) I'm not really doing what I want and certainly not what I'm capable of. (Although, I've never really cared about my own "potential".)
B.) I'm certainly not living where I want to and I feel trapped.
C.) I often feel I'm just going through the motions... which is probably not really fulfilling, but frankly, I couldn't even be bothered to give a shit.

It seems that taking in the big picture can be daunting and often downright dreadful. Still... I'll stumble around the corner and find a moment of happiness. I may have discovered the notion that actual happiness (for me) is very momentary and often seems quite small. I think if any of my current circumstances were to change - get a great job, live where I want, be fulfilled by what I'm doing - I still wouldn't be any "happier" per se. I would still be pressed to find those small, momentary instances of happiness within a different set of circumstances. I don't think anything would really be too different. ...

American writer David Sedaris used to live in New York City and was riddled with anxieties. One day, he picked up and moved to Paris. He spoke no French. His first ventures out were for necessities - to buy things, pay bills, get food, etc., - and he was terrified but knew he had to do it. He kept doing it and found small pleasures. Once, he went out and found only one shop keeper who was nice to him and this was so completely satisfying - he was overjoyed. It made him keep going; he kept looking for more people to be nice to him or other things he found pleasurable. He never set out to do any of this... it just happened... but it wouldn't have happened at all, had he stayed in NYC.

After living in Paris for several months, he became more confident and comfortable with interactions that he never would have attempted in New York City. He realized he needed to be taken out of his "comfort zone" and forced to interact in order to gain any real pleasure from it and gain what he found to be satisfaction in living.
***
I think Vosur, you might need to throw yourself out there and see what happens. It might be very difficult- -Oh hell, it will be difficult for sure! It will be a mystery. Be the discoverer of your own life.

I might even be at the place in my life ... where I need to take my own advice. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-06-2014, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 03:14 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Future
(12-06-2014 10:06 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm frustrated with myself and my life and I don't know how to solve these problems on my own. I really don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do.
I am going to take you up on your offer. I would appreciate some feedback from you. Give my stuff some thought, please. Much of my stuff will be emotionally draining and resistant. But as desperate as I was, I welcomed the difficulty as something real and solid, a problem to sink my teeth into, a real enemy to pursue. The way of the greatest resistance means that someone cruel really did not want you to know something or have something or act in some way, to be happy, free and self-reliant.
In my experience, my subconscious was turned into a dark room full of sharp objects and mine field on the floor. And the work of self-knowledge is going in there and it is about as pleasant. Yet if I don't, they win, the ones who put all that pain and junk into my soul.
You are not alone. There are many people suffering in the same way, for the same objective reasons.

(12-06-2014 10:06 AM)Vosur Wrote:  A couple hours before I wrote this post, I thought about it all and had a severe anxiety attack that still hasn't worn off. It has been a bit therapeutic to write all this, though.
It certainly is! I wrote my share of things and it may also explain why some of my forum posts for the past year are a bit on edge. I know what you are dealing with and I think I have a way out of it. It may be the most difficult thing you ever did, but also the most rewarding.

(12-06-2014 10:06 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I've been planning to make this thread for a long time now, but one thing or another has always kept me from going through with it. Well, there's not going to an excuse this time, so here it is.

As many of you know, I started studying sociology and statistics at a nearby university last year. The thing is, I haven't attended my classes in several months now because I realized that I don't like the subject after all. The one and only reason why I haven't quit my studies by now is because I have yet to find an alternative. I was going to study psychology originally, but it remains inaccessible for me due to the strict standards of admission. One of the major problems with finding a job - any job - is that I'm a very introverted person. I've been to a job interview before and it was a nightmare for me. Almost every job that has a moderate level of customer interaction (which would be a majority of them) is a no-go for me; the same goes for jobs that require you to have a bachelor's degree (or higher) because I'm not interested enough in any of the possible subjects to force myself through a minimum of three years of tenuous learning and studying. All I'm left with, then, are low-requirement, low-income jobs and those that require you to complete an apprenticeship (most of which I'm not interested in). I don't plan on having kids - ever - so the least I would need to earn would have to be enough so I can live on my own or with a partner who may or may not work herself.
I am also an introverted person. My problem was, I lived with toxic, abusive people who permitted me no existence or personality of my own. And I was perhaps too good at obliging them to avoid their attacks.
Introversion is one thing. But before you deem yourself socially anxious, please check if you are or were in fact not surrounded by assholes. That realization was very helpful to me.

(12-06-2014 10:06 AM)Vosur Wrote:  In addition to all this, while I don't lack for discipline or willpower, I've been having a massive motivation problem my entire life. I've tried to get more physically active at several points in my life, for example, and for one reason or another, I have failed every single time, without exception. One of the primary reasons is that the thing which gives me motivation is often tied to something that lasts only temporarily. I've tried to do it for a former partner, for instance, but when the relationship ended, my motivation vanished with it and everything I had achieved up until that point was destroyed in the months of inactiveness that followed. Any time I try to make a change, I can't bring myself to stick with it for a lasting time and end up more miserable with each failure. I know that I can't do this for myself because I don't really care enough. I can't seem to find motivation from within, a reason that is meaningful and permanent. It's become so much of a burden that I've been thinking about giving up all together lately. The fact that I'm a pessimist at heart and view everything as ultimately meaningless hasn't exactly helped with this problem.
Most people would give that problem a label of "procrastination", but weak will would do the same. I have the same problems. However, I realized one very unpleasant thing. I am very vulnerable and easily depressed by duties, because all my life, I was bullied into duties. I was punished for not doing duties. My own motivation was destroyed. If I was punished, that meant duties or chores are more important than me. This worthlessness sinks deep and when such a person encounters a chore, duty or challenge, it is like dying inside. It means self-erasure, I have no value of my own and the chore overrules it all and I am worthless if I don't do it right. That creates an enormous anxiety and resistance.
Before you call your will weak, please check if you were not in fact treated like a slave.
Were you ever bullied or shamed into doing duties that someone else chose for you, regardless of your own will? If someone broke your will and replaced it with theirs, and that disgusting bully is not around anymore, you're on your own, no wonder that you feel a lack of will.
Bullies shame us into duties and such shame is a very toxic, sadistic thing. John Bradshaw has a very good book about it. He's a Christian, so there is one chapter about AA that you might want to skip, but the book as a whole has been most helpful to me. Alternatively, you might want to read this, the truth about how are we bullied in our closest relationships.

You are very accurate, honest and reasonable. All of what you describe having are enormously useful defensive and survival mechanisms IF YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY ABUSIVE PEOPLE. Everything you say makes perfect sense if you had no choice but to be with toxic people (childhood). The problem is, these mechanisms are subconscious and they do not have an off button in the conscious mind. The only way to stop them is to go through psychotherapy and re-live the traumatic situations that created them. Re-live the fear, pain and shame. This puts the time and date stamp on the experience and the program stops being re-enacted in the present. It will not give you the skills you need, but it will give you new freedom to develop the skills - and quickly. Much more quickly than when growing up.

As I said, your problems are not unique. In fact, there is quite a lot of psychological literature, that deals with these issues. There are some books that helped me. However, your choice to study psychology is commendable one, this is also what you will need. Psychologists deal with people like us all the time. I believe many of them went through the same experiences.
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12-06-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Future
(12-06-2014 10:06 AM)Vosur Wrote:  As many of you know, I started studying sociology and statistics at a nearby university last year. The thing is, I haven't attended my classes in several months now because I realized that I don't like the subject after all. The one and only reason why I haven't quit my studies by now is because I have yet to find an alternative. I was going to study psychology originally, but it remains inaccessible for me due to the strict standards of admission. One of the major problems with finding a job - any job - is that I'm a very introverted person.

It can be difficult finding the right subject. My brother was the one into electronics, computer programming and all the techy stuff. He talked about it with my dad a lot and me being 4 years younger had to look at other subjects, none of which were right for me. So I took the soft subjects at school and didn't do well at all. I hated being told how I should ideologically view the world by teachers. I wanted to know facts, science and how things work, not opinions. I eventually managed to get into computing after dropping out of other subjects that had tried to mould how I think.

I am quite introverted as well although after all these years I am finally coming out of my shell. But I will always be someone who is more productive working alone. The problem is that my career as a programmer doesn't give me any social interaction so I actually lack social confidence as a result. It gets worse if I work from home.

You need to be honest with yourself about what you ideally want from a career. What is your forte? Your sumone whom is realy exact and cares about the detales for exampel. Maybe you should consider becoming a translator? You seem to be really good with languages and spotting errors. There will be many careers out there suited to you, you just need to learn to recognise them.

Maybe you should look at a prospectus for your local university again and reconsider each course. That's what I did I originally dismissed Computer science at school because I thought of it as the kind of thing that my brother did rather than something that I could do. I had to re-evaluate what I was and wasn't so good at. I had a crisis of confidence at 6th form college (the stage between school and university) and my mother showed me my very first school reports before life turned shit for me. She reminded me that I used to be top of the class. When it turned to shit I ended up bottom of the class just two terms later and I then went through the rest of school doing the minimum work necessary.

If you're heart is not in it then you won't do well.
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12-06-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: Future
Off the top of my head, I'll say that your personality is (ideally?) suited to software development or IT.
And a bachelor's degree is not always required, just some certifications or demonstrable prowess.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2014, 08:22 PM
RE: Future
Losty may have hit on something.

You're extremely good with language in general, especially in writing. While you may or may not be under the impression that YOU can write well yourself, you sure can thoroughly evaluate and/or polish an already-written piece.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Sad

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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12-06-2014, 09:03 PM
RE: Future
Knowing you vosur, you will find what you are searching for. You are a intellectual warrior. Your mind is one not to fool with. You can notice details that no one else notices. This is what makes you a smart and intelligent man. You are also strong, able to deal with life in ways some other people can't. Use this vosur and wait. When the opportunities come jump on them and become the best in it. You are a great man vosur and I know that you will do just fine in this horror land we call the real world.

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12-06-2014, 10:41 PM
RE: Future
I connect to you with this very similar problem, and went through some of the issues the same way, such as not knowing what to do about how I felt about a college degree. I also had moments of basing motivation off of other people.

I am still in that similar boat of having struggles to find motivation in normal concepts to people, a lot of it I struggle with because I find it arbitrary. Such as social norms of small talk and not working on something to have a chat with a superior.

I've probably got larger discipline/control issues than you as you describe, but I've been stuck in a quandary of not knowing how to get out of the situation by myself. I know I've found myself having solace in some philosophy studies and quazi zen mental concepts, but that only makes me feel at ease with it for the most part. Currently I see myself in the cycle of thinking I should reach out to some type of therapy for assistance, but my social anxiety, which is something that could possibly help, prevents me from taking that next step in that processes. I think finding a place of mind for yourself is a good initial step though.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-06-2014, 03:02 AM
RE: Future
I have to agree with Chas, I think you should try out IT, in particular software development. I find that people who do best in that field are ruthlessly logical, pragmatic, and equal parts introverted and non-sociable.

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I stay motivated primarily by a desire to just be the best at what I know how to do. I like being the smartest guy in the room, and so I work really hard to try and be that guy. Without a sense of ego or other smart people to compete against, I am certain I would do nothing more than play video games and idly surf the internet for the rest of my life. So my suggestion to you is to find some work that you can put your whole self into, and the make that one of the most important things in your life.

On a related note, I would try and tough it out with school. For myself anyway, I have started to prefer the harder subjects. Anthropology and art history is for pussies, statistics and science that utilize integral and deferential calculus is the real deal. There is something deeply satisfying about a mathematical understanding of something; you don't just get it, when you can put something to an equation you fucking own it. I know its hard, but learn to embrace the grind, and try and look at school as a way to challenge yourself and expand your horizons.

EDIT: I took an advance statistics class, and I am starting to get into cool stuff like data mining and building mathematical models utilizing statistics. Its a lot of fun. If you ever want to nerd out send me a message and we can daydream about numbers together Thumbsup .
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