Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
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22-01-2017, 08:21 PM
RE: Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
(22-01-2017 12:32 PM)JHaysPE Wrote:  
(20-01-2017 08:10 PM)Leela Wrote:  I've been pondering for quite a while why that fuzzy warm feeling of faith is so much more important to people than living in the real world.

I get it that sometimes we need an escape, but that is what the whole entertainment business is for. If I feel down, or need to forget my thoughts for a while, I watch a movie, read a book, see a theatre, listen to music, etc. I see no use in religion for that. But it seems, at it's core, to be what people want. A fuzzy warm feeling that everything will be alright because <enter higher power here> is taking care of me and my sorrows.

And the weird thing, they know that what they are believing is not truth. They know it and they basically tell it to your face "Yes I read <enter scientific fact> but I believe that <enter religious bs>" It makes no sense to me but there we go again with George Orwell's "Double think" I guess.
This is a skill I do not posses. I cannot accept a scientific fact as truth and then also accept a contradicting faith about the same thing as truth as well. My brain would explode. "Yes Noah's Ark really happened because the bible says so" but also "of course, I know that there was no global flood, because science, duh"

That hat feel good stuff is usually very horrible considering everything. Usually some sort of injustice. Hinduism with the casts for example is super unfair and injust but people choose to stay religious (I still have to hear of a person that was born Hindu and left that faith).

Or this whole "god is good" concept which is untrue considering what it actually says in the bible and the q'ran but it has been and stays a way to teach these religions. God will take care of you because he loves you and he loves everybody... Well apart from gays (god hates fags) and women (don't break the stick you beating your wife with on your wife and don't hit her in the face because we are so just) ... good you are not one of thoooose.

I don't know. Can anybody explain that to me? Why they choose fuzzy good warm feeling over things being as real and true as possible? (especially considering how absolutely not warm and not fuzzy those religions actually are)
I believe that the mind operates choices between appetites and motives. These appetites and motives can be aligned to a purpose (I'm hungry, I think I'll eat), or they can counter each other (I'd live "better" if I eat healthy).

I believe these "warm fuzzies" you describe go to motives. They may be utilized to inspire actions to counter appetites for the purposes of "more fulfilled" existence.

For example - pursuing an education can be difficult and require sacrifices of time, money and effort. The appetites define this sacrifice - I'd rather spend my time with my friends, and my money on entertainment. In this case, the motive is that intangible desire to receive the education, imagining a better job, or a more fulfilling career. The motives can serve to counter the appetites, for the willing of the efforts and actions to accomplish completing the education.

If I'm not misunderstanding you, what you're describing here might be more accurately described in terms of conflicting desires and short-term vs. long-term thinking.

"I am hungry so I will consume these empty but conveniently packaged calories."
vs.
"I am hungry and would prefer to live a long and healthy life so I will take the time to prepare more nutritious, less calorie-dense food."

"I am bored and would like fun time with friends and movies!"
vs.
"I am bored and would prefer not to flip burgers for the rest of my days so I will spend a few years getting an education in the hope that I may have more and better fun time with friends and movies in the future, whilst flipping burgers in a highly-trained manner. Smartass "

The human mind never operates contrary to its desires or apetites except in cases of insanity. Nobody thinks, "I am hungry and I have no reason not to eat this nutritious and delicious meal but I won't." Nobody sticks their tongue in the light socket.

Religion is sufficiently complicated that I would not want to ascribe any single desire, motive or apetite. Simplistic motives that spring to mind include:

"I am frightened by the harshness of reality and would prefer to believe in an alternative where the cold truths are replaced or masked by warm fuzzies."

"I have evolved as a pattern-seeking organism and prefer to believe in patterns where there are none rather than accept that much of my world is without reason."

"I was raised to believe thusly and would prefer to continue believing thusly rather than suffer the profound psychological dissonance that abandonning my worldview would produce no matter how wrong it may be."

I'm certain you can think of better ones. I make a poor theist, never having matured beyond the stage of praying for immortality.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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22-01-2017, 08:48 PM
RE: Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
(20-01-2017 08:10 PM)Leela Wrote:  I've been pondering for quite a while why that fuzzy warm feeling of faith is so much more important to people than living in the real world.

I get it that sometimes we need an escape, but that is what the whole entertainment business is for.

Sometimes a movie doesn't cut it. Some problems are big enough that a comedian just isn't enough. Some people need an afterlife, purpose or sense of Divine Justice.

We all have "warm fuzzies" to some extent, even if it's just telling ourselves that it's OK to procrastinate over a particularly unpleasant chore. We all live within our own personal misinterpretations of reality. The problems begin when your "warm fuzzies" blot out so much of reality that you cease to be fully functional in it.

By virtue of being both evolved and political, religions are an organic mess of useful psychological and sociological tools ground in with a whole lot of paleolithic goat-herder mythology and Roman-era mystery cult that are rubbish or counterproductive in the modern era. The savvy theist has learned to ignore these maladaptive parts as allegorical, mistranslated, revoked or quite simply, "I don't believe that bit."

Quote:It makes no sense to me...

You wouldn't be an atheist if it did.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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22-01-2017, 11:22 PM
RE: Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
(22-01-2017 08:21 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 12:32 PM)JHaysPE Wrote:  I believe that the mind operates choices between appetites and motives...
If I'm not misunderstanding you, what you're describing here might be more accurately described in terms of conflicting desires and short-term vs. long-term thinking.
I prefer to understand this sort of thing as self-empathy. Empathy is enabled by mirror neurons and is the ability to imagine how someone else feels or how they would respond to a hypothetical situation.

The ability to make short term sacrifices for long term gain is simply a special case of empathy where you are imagining YOURSELF enjoying the benefits of losing weight or education or whatever, and that provides the same motivation for self-control that it might provide for self-sacrifice on behalf of someone you care about.

It is no accident that sociopaths tend to have impulse-control issues. Their inability to empathize with others probably extends to empathizing with their future self as this requires the same visualization and imagination circuits. This in turn makes it hard for them to imagine the long term benefits to themselves of short-term self control.
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24-01-2017, 03:55 AM
RE: Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
God doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, he makes me feel like killing myself. (Well, technically, I make me feel like killing myself, but God triggers it). Good thing I don't have to believe in him anymore.

Truth seeker.
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24-01-2017, 06:30 AM
RE: Fuzzy feeling vs. reality
For a "warm and fuzzy" feeling - I prefer getting a blowjob over religion.

..

I always tell the Jehovah's Witnesses that when they show up -- so far, they haven't catered to my preferences.

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.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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