GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
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21-08-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
Sure, I'll bite.

(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Unfortunately athiests usually worship man and his so called advancements, whether they destroy or attempt to help mankind.

We're actually against anything that destroys mankind. You would do well to look at the views of Secular Humanism, which is loosely the common philosophy of atheists. I hope it is not too much to ask that you actually understand our position before you try to mock it.


(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  For in this thread lets discuss in science and the humanities, GMO's and all the new patented plants that the bog corporations have developed through gene manipulation to steal from small farmers, and steal from poor families...all for the sake of making capital for their non caring share holders, for money is their god.

This is the fields that university indocrinated geneticists mainly flock to, as these rather vile heartless corporations of man and money hire these hired guns to exploit farmers, make them pay for new varieties, destroy their fields, destroy our bodies with their cancer producing new plants, and destroy our pocketbooks so as impoverish hard workers.

Yeah, actually I totally agree with you on the negative effects of big corporations on both science and public health, as well as the destruction of the American small farmer. I also agree that money is their god.

I also strongly agree with the difference between the pure sciences (research just for research's sake, whether or not there's a potential profit in it, which is why grant money is a thing) and the applied sciences (in which they are more like engineers, making stuff for companies, usually) are different categories. Scientists stand to make a lot more money in the latter category, and I think it is detrimental to science as a whole that many of our brightest minds go with making more money rather than sticking to pure research at the lower payscales. This says nothing about science, but rather about our culture.

By the way, my Beloved is a geneticist, also a Christian, and works in a pure science research lab, looking at the genes that control aging (in Caenorhabditis elegans, a type of nematode/roundworm that has the same "switchable on/off" genes we do for controlling the rate at which it ages). It's insulting to me that you insult her by saying that she is a "university-indoctrinated geneticist" (her degree is from the University of Kansas) and imply that people in genetics are just corporate shills. As I said above, it's a shame that it's so common, but it's by no means definitive of the field of genetics.


(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So do proceed to either agree with GMO's and genetic manipulation as an exploitive tool against the poor to help rid excess populations and genocide of the poor or think and have the courage to be against the mis-use of science because these corporations have no morals, and only look at their bottom line.

I for one am against them, please state whether you are pro GMO or not in your responses......

Be objective not subjective, show that atheists can have a heart and can be moral.

I agree with the idea of GMOs, as I think that a great deal of good has been done in the field, like adding the gene for Vitamin A to "golden rice" which allows people who are in areas that can't get this nutrient easily to have a source of it in their daily diet. The promise of GMO is exciting, your listed exceptions notwithstanding, and the way corporations abuse their patent rights is unrelated to whether GMO are good on their own. If we threw out an entire idea every time someone in power abused it, we'd have to do away with courts of law, the military, organized religion, and about a million other things.

As for your last comment, "show that atheists can...be moral", man, you're a jerk. That's so condescending and ignorant, I don't even have words to cover the amount of jackassery that comment constitutes.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:09 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Actually calling me a child shows your inadeguies*

*inadequacies

When you grow up, and mommy lets you go to school, you'll learn to spell and use big words.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-08-2015, 09:49 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
I'm going to ignore the fluff and name calling and cut to the actual content of the OP.

Because, (hold on to your hats folks) you actually made one valid point. That is the one about how the new strains of GMO crops are prohibitively expensive. This is a valid point, and I could also point to the possibilities of farmers whose non-GMO crops get pollinated by GMOs. Are these farmers open to lawsuits now? Some would say yes. While I'm usually a staunch capitalist I'm not sure how I feel about that, those farmers didn't choose to participate in the system and didn't choose to get GMO crops but they end up with them.

For the health concerns they are not well founded. There is no reason to think that GMOs would be more dangerous to eat than other crops. And they have improved yields and saved many many people from starvation. I call that a good thing.
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21-08-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
The science on GMOs themselves is sound and has been one of the most researched topics out there. Increasing pest, and herbicide resistance are both good things. As well as being able to add nutrition to foods. Prime example is golden rice which will save the vision and lives of millions of people, especially those that have rice staple diets in poor countries.

GMOs are a good thing and will be necessary to feed the planet in the future as our climate continues to rapidly change, we will need to modify our crops to become drought and flood resistant so that our food supplies aren't disrupted.

Here are some links, I hope that you will take the time to actually research them and see for yourself.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and...rrors.html
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/20...n-science/
http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/p/450-publ...ments.html

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21-08-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  destroy our bodies with their cancer producing new plants,

Reference please for body destroying, cancer causing GMOs.
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21-08-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:09 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 08:03 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You are wading into the deep end of the pool child if you think you are going to challenge me intellectually on any area of theology. My point was running into our forum and creating a plethora (look it up) of threads is spammy in nature. Stake your assertion/s and validate them. One or two would be great, rather than screaming for attention by creating a copious (look it up) number of threads.

Actually calling me a child shows your inadeguies rather than mine. And saying my mere five threads is copious seems to show more than just your overestimation and magnification and must boarder on fear and or paranoia of certain topics. This topic of GMO's was eluded to by Rocket Man and not me. He must have opinions on this as he works with genetics, so lets ee if atheists have ever thought about the horrific results of human genetic manipulation. Lets see if athiests can think and have the courage to stand up if they are against these atrocities of man and atrocities of these rich corporations.

Thats the question, and you refuse to respond according to your opinion or your moral stance.

Ooooh - a new word - inadeguies. Smile
I would think it should be spelled inadeGUIs. It particularly applies to Windows 8.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-08-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:09 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Actually calling me a child shows your inadeguies inadequecies rather than mine. And saying my mere five threads is copious seems to show more than just your overestimation and magnification and must boarder border on fear and or paranoia of certain topics. This topic of GMO's was eluded alluded to by Rocket Man and not me. He must have opinions on this as he works with genetics, so lets ee see if atheists have ever thought about the horrific results of human genetic manipulation.

I hope you are not claiming manipulation of the human genome. Consider

Quote:Lets see if athiests atheists can think and have the courage to stand up if they are against these atrocities of man and atrocities of these rich corporations.

What atrocities? Consider

Quote:Thats the question, and you refuse to respond according to your opinion or your moral stance.

What do you fear is happening or is going to happen? And what is your evidence?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-08-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 09:09 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Lets see if athiests atheists can think and have the courage to stand up if they are against these atrocities of man and atrocities of these rich corporations.

I dig your kindness in correcting his spelling, but maybe he wasn't spelling it wrong.

You're pretty athy.

I'm even athier.

And I think perhaps EvolutionKills is the athiest of all.

Laugh out load

(Sorry to anyone I left out... was just grabbing names at random.)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:49 AM)natachan Wrote:  I'm going to ignore the fluff and name calling and cut to the actual content of the OP.

Because, (hold on to your hats folks) you actually made one valid point. That is the one about how the new strains of GMO crops are prohibitively expensive. This is a valid point, and I could also point to the possibilities of farmers whose non-GMO crops get pollinated by GMOs. Are these farmers open to lawsuits now? Some would say yes. While I'm usually a staunch capitalist I'm not sure how I feel about that, those farmers didn't choose to participate in the system and didn't choose to get GMO crops but they end up with them.

For the health concerns they are not well founded. There is no reason to think that GMOs would be more dangerous to eat than other crops. And they have improved yields and saved many many people from starvation. I call that a good thing.

In actuality even this is not much of a point. It is not possible to sue for incidental pollination. It never has been. It has never occurred. And so that has nothing to do with genetic modification in any case...

The basic economic realities in effect make the price irrelevant as well. If the strain generates a higher yield or requires fewer outside inputs (eg pesticides) then it is worth a higher price. If it is not worth it, no one will buy it.

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22-08-2015, 08:14 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:26 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Sure, I'll bite.

(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Unfortunately athiests usually worship man and his so called advancements, whether they destroy or attempt to help mankind.

We're actually against anything that destroys mankind. You would do well to look at the views of Secular Humanism, which is loosely the common philosophy of atheists. I hope it is not too much to ask that you actually understand our position before you try to mock it.


(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  For in this thread lets discuss in science and the humanities, GMO's and all the new patented plants that the bog corporations have developed through gene manipulation to steal from small farmers, and steal from poor families...all for the sake of making capital for their non caring share holders, for money is their god.

This is the fields that university indocrinated geneticists mainly flock to, as these rather vile heartless corporations of man and money hire these hired guns to exploit farmers, make them pay for new varieties, destroy their fields, destroy our bodies with their cancer producing new plants, and destroy our pocketbooks so as impoverish hard workers.

Yeah, actually I totally agree with you on the negative effects of big corporations on both science and public health, as well as the destruction of the American small farmer. I also agree that money is their god.

I also strongly agree with the difference between the pure sciences (research just for research's sake, whether or not there's a potential profit in it, which is why grant money is a thing) and the applied sciences (in which they are more like engineers, making stuff for companies, usually) are different categories. Scientists stand to make a lot more money in the latter category, and I think it is detrimental to science as a whole that many of our brightest minds go with making more money rather than sticking to pure research at the lower payscales. This says nothing about science, but rather about our culture.

By the way, my Beloved is a geneticist, also a Christian, and works in a pure science research lab, looking at the genes that control aging (in Caenorhabditis elegans, a type of nematode/roundworm that has the same "switchable on/off" genes we do for controlling the rate at which it ages). It's insulting to me that you insult her by saying that she is a "university-indoctrinated geneticist" (her degree is from the University of Kansas) and imply that people in genetics are just corporate shills. As I said above, it's a shame that it's so common, but it's by no means definitive of the field of genetics.


(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So do proceed to either agree with GMO's and genetic manipulation as an exploitive tool against the poor to help rid excess populations and genocide of the poor or think and have the courage to be against the mis-use of science because these corporations have no morals, and only look at their bottom line.

I for one am against them, please state whether you are pro GMO or not in your responses......

Be objective not subjective, show that atheists can have a heart and can be moral.

I agree with the idea of GMOs, as I think that a great deal of good has been done in the field, like adding the gene for Vitamin A to "golden rice" which allows people who are in areas that can't get this nutrient easily to have a source of it in their daily diet. The promise of GMO is exciting, your listed exceptions notwithstanding, and the way corporations abuse their patent rights is unrelated to whether GMO are good on their own. If we threw out an entire idea every time someone in power abused it, we'd have to do away with courts of law, the military, organized religion, and about a million other things.

As for your last comment, "show that atheists can...be moral", man, you're a jerk. That's so condescending and ignorant, I don't even have words to cover the amount of jackassery that comment constitutes.

Finnally a reasoned moral response, well spoken Rocket. Your response should be a wake up call to your fellows to post accordingly.

But lets get into this further, as set theory or set law or logic indicates that the majority of genetics is not pure research because that money would come usually from governments and governments are hardly into helping their people but helping the richest of their people, and they own the corporations.

So science is limited by motivations and greeds and selfishnesses and worse. Similarly the application of any true science is also hindered by the profit motive and what is in it for the, lets call it them the elite, and they certainly dont want to keep alive all the Inidan small framers of India, whereas their suicides help them in their genicide of the so called lower ranks and castes.

So science is not an island and has to be considered in conjunction with real life or pyschology or with history or with the true condition of what really controls the worlds agriculture etc...... There is no sacro sanct lab, that can produce beneficial results...... unless done on a very small scale... Vit A... OK... a little so called humanitarian aid while at the same time stealing the poor peoples resources, and sterilizing their women with their vaccines, and killing them with their cancver producing GMO's.

But me and Rocket agree on some of these issues, and that is the way..... thinking people should think. Sometimes agreement sometimes disagreement, we need to be objective in every issue every problem rather than joining ranks on religious backgrounds (evolution included).

Two cheers for Rockets response, even though he wasn't very strong or definitive on his GMO remarks.

Maybe later
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