GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
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22-08-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 09:49 AM)natachan Wrote:  I'm going to ignore the fluff and name calling and cut to the actual content of the OP.

Because, (hold on to your hats folks) you actually made one valid point. That is the one about how the new strains of GMO crops are prohibitively expensive. This is a valid point, and I could also point to the possibilities of farmers whose non-GMO crops get pollinated by GMOs. Are these farmers open to lawsuits now? Some would say yes. While I'm usually a staunch capitalist I'm not sure how I feel about that, those farmers didn't choose to participate in the system and didn't choose to get GMO crops but they end up with them.

For the health concerns they are not well founded. There is no reason to think that GMOs would be more dangerous to eat than other crops. And they have improved yields and saved many many people from starvation. I call that a good thing.

Reasoned response... Thanks

But NO, GMOs and big pesticide companies like Monsanto, etc... do kill and make farmers commit suicide and do starve their families and wreck their farmlands, and totally impoverish them ......... as corporations do not care about people but about profits.

Their shareholder capitalists want dividends and their CEO better produce no matter what. Shareholders dont care about third world workers and their families or whether 1st world and 2nd world and 3rd world envirorments are being severely damaged or destroyed. They dont care about Fukushimas and their destruction of the ocean, all they care about is the superficial and their own greed. Its all short term and to HELL with the workers or the poor. They dont care even about the normal eaters who they are piosoning, as few of the very rich eat GMO foods. Its for the poor and the middle class. So they persecuite farmers markets, and make laws against backyard gardens and catching the Lords rainwater etc etc...

Moral atheists need to unite with moral whoevers of all religions and bond over stopping the out of control GMO evils.
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22-08-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Finnally a reasoned moral response, well spoken Rocket. Your response should be a wake up call to your fellows to post accordingly.

Are you going to address the part where he explicitly called you out on being an asshole, too?

(magic 8 ball says: don't count on it - thanks, magic 8 ball!)

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  But lets get into this further, as set theory or set law or logic indicates that the majority of genetics is not pure research because that money would come usually from governments and governments are hardly into helping their people but helping the richest of their people, and they own the corporations.

So science is limited by motivations and greeds and selfishnesses and worse. Similarly the application of any true science is also hindered by the profit motive and what is in it for the, lets call it them the elite, and they certainly dont want to keep alive all the Inidan small framers of India, whereas their suicides help them in their genicide of the so called lower ranks and castes.

This is a combination of false and incoherent. Conspiricist delusion is not compelling.

Do you have a single fact to back that up?

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So science is not an island and has to be considered in conjunction with real life or pyschology or with history or with the true condition of what really controls the worlds agriculture etc...... There is no sacro sanct lab, that can produce beneficial results...... unless done on a very small scale... Vit A... OK... a little so called humanitarian aid while at the same time stealing the poor peoples resources, and sterilizing their women with their vaccines, and killing them with their cancver producing GMO's.

Vaccines do not cause infertility. Genetically engineered crops do not cause cancer. You do not give a shit about facts.

If you can produce a falsifiable mechanism of action in either case, and substantiate it with statistically significant data analysis, you will single handedly change the world. Should I start planning now for your Nobel reception?

(magic 8 ball says: very doubtful - why, who knew!)

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  But me and Rocket agree on some of these issues, and that is the way..... thinking people should think. Sometimes agreement sometimes disagreement, we need to be objective in every issue every problem rather than joining ranks on religious backgrounds (evolution included).

Two cheers for Rockets response, even though he wasn't very strong or definitive on his GMO remarks.

Maybe later

(21-08-2015 09:26 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  As for your last comment, "show that atheists can...be moral", man, you're a jerk. That's so condescending and ignorant, I don't even have words to cover the amount of jackassery that comment constitutes.

Cheers indeed.

... this is my signature!
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22-08-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
Whao.. google Kenyan girls sterlized by Bill Gates Foundation.

% seconds to google... http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-steril...ne/5431664

Genocide, sterilization of the poor is very real in this unreal world where the rich and powerful think they can control and eliminate more than half the worlds population.... meaning the poor.

Its done through the notorious and vile vaccines, that are just vechicles not for good but for disease and sterilization.

I might take a few seconds and find the Kenyan hyper for you... it did .... five seconds See above

But there is a mnyriad of evidence against vaccines...... not the tried and proven ones but the ones made for profit or made to sterilize or made to give diseases to the poor...

Then realise that it will be a crime not to have them inject you, force force force.... thats the system way.

But this thread is on GMOs not killer vaccines
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22-08-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Finnally a reasoned moral response, well spoken Rocket. Your response should be a wake up call to your fellows to post accordingly.

My "fellows" are welcome to post as they wish, and they don't need my permission or yours to do it. That is what Free Speech is all about, and it's one of the primary liberties we won against centuries of church suppression.

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  But lets get into this further, as set theory or set law or logic indicates that the majority of genetics is not pure research because that money would come usually from governments and governments are hardly into helping their people but helping the richest of their people, and they own the corporations.

What? Genetics is the study of genes, nothing more. What is done with that research, and/or what motivates that research, is entirely irrelevant to the science of genetics. It's a socio-political discussion.

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So science is limited by motivations and greeds and selfishnesses and worse. Similarly the application of any true science is also hindered by the profit motive and what is in it for the, lets call it them the elite, and they certainly dont want to keep alive all the Inidan small framers of India, whereas their suicides help them in their genicide of the so called lower ranks and castes.

No, it is not. I did not say or even imply that. You just made that up. I said that unfortunately, the profit motive lures away many of the brightest minds in science into "applied" science, but many also remain in the pure sciences. Do not put words in my mouth, and do not slander my fellow scientists, including my Beloved, who works in genetics without profit motive, trying to improve the lives of human beings by understanding our evolution and applying that understanding to medicine. (Which may ultimately be profitable, but not any time soon.)

Again, what mega-corporations choose to do with science has nothing to do with the science itself. Repeat this to yourself until you understand it.

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So science is not an island and has to be considered in conjunction with real life or pyschology or with history or with the true condition of what really controls the worlds agriculture etc...... There is no sacro sanct lab, that can produce beneficial results...... unless done on a very small scale... Vit A... OK... a little so called humanitarian aid while at the same time stealing the poor peoples resources, and sterilizing their women with their vaccines, and killing them with their cancver producing GMO's.

There is no evidence to suggest that GMOs cause cancer. None. And yes, there have been hundreds of studies (many of them inherently neutral or hostile to GMO) which have shown no link. You don't get to make stuff up, dude.

And again, you need to repeat it to yourself until you understand that what companies do with the knowledge gained from scientific research does not impugn the science itself. Science has brought us millions of beneficial things, including cancer therapies and the computers on which we're having this discussion.

(22-08-2015 08:14 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  But me and Rocket agree on some of these issues, and that is the way..... thinking people should think. Sometimes agreement sometimes disagreement, we need to be objective in every issue every problem rather than joining ranks on religious backgrounds (evolution included).

Two cheers for Rockets response, even though he wasn't very strong or definitive on his GMO remarks.

Maybe later

I am not against GMO, that's why they weren't "very strong or definitive".

I am, however, an honest person, and will readily admit when I agree with even my worst enemy, or when that enemy makes a point that makes me rethink a position and change my mind. I call it "intellectual honesty", and I find it is a dangerously-rare trait.

An example of intellectual DIShonesty would be to take "I also strongly agree with the difference between the pure sciences (research just for research's sake, whether or not there's a potential profit in it, which is why grant money is a thing) and the applied sciences (in which they are more like engineers, making stuff for companies, usually) are different categories. Scientists stand to make a lot more money in the latter category, and I think it is detrimental to science as a whole that many of our brightest minds go with making more money rather than sticking to pure research at the lower payscales. This says nothing about science, but rather about our culture." (what I actually said), and turn it into "So science is limited by motivations and greeds and selfishnesses and worse. Similarly the application of any true science is also hindered by the profit motive". That is not even close to what I said, and it's so far off from what I said that I cannot for a moment believe you didn't do it deliberately.

I have nothing but contempt for "quote-miners", who take things out of context to make scientists (even me) say things they do not say, or to make it look like science is something it is not, in order to promote their personal agenda.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 08:33 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Whao.. google Kenyan girls sterlized by Bill Gates Foundation.

% seconds to google... http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-steril...ne/5431664

Genocide, sterilization of the poor is very real in this unreal world where the rich and powerful think they can control and eliminate more than half the worlds population.... meaning the poor.

Its done through the notorious and vile vaccines, that are just vechicles not for good but for disease and sterilization.

I might take a few seconds and find the Kenyan hyper for you... it did .... five seconds See above

But there is a mnyriad of evidence against vaccines...... not the tried and proven ones but the ones made for profit or made to sterilize or made to give diseases to the poor...

Then realise that it will be a crime not to have them inject you, force force force.... thats the system way.

But this thread is on GMOs not killer vaccines

Laugh out load

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
Are you eating GMO's Rocket ? If you have a wife and kids are you feeding them GMO's morning, noon and night ?

Do you wish the labels stated whether or not, they were GMO ?

The proof is in the pudding ....... do you trust the corporations enough to eat their GMO's ? Answer honestly now ...
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22-08-2015, 09:11 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 08:55 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 08:33 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Whao.. google Kenyan girls sterlized by Bill Gates Foundation.

% seconds to google... http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-steril...ne/5431664

Genocide, sterilization of the poor is very real in this unreal world where the rich and powerful think they can control and eliminate more than half the worlds population.... meaning the poor.

Its done through the notorious and vile vaccines, that are just vechicles not for good but for disease and sterilization.

I might take a few seconds and find the Kenyan hyper for you... it did .... five seconds See above

But there is a mnyriad of evidence against vaccines...... not the tried and proven ones but the ones made for profit or made to sterilize or made to give diseases to the poor...

Then realise that it will be a crime not to have them inject you, force force force.... thats the system way.

But this thread is on GMOs not killer vaccines

Laugh out load

The evidence is there, the elite want to eliminate half the worlds population and so whats 70,000 sterilization of mere thrid world Kenyan girls. They deem sterilizing them, good for them...and so no legal action has happened against Bill and his organization nor against the UN for doing this forced sterilization under deception.
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22-08-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 09:08 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Are you eating GMO's Rocket ? If you have a wife and kids are you feeding them GMO's morning, noon and night ?

Do you wish the labels stated whether or not, they were GMO ?

The proof is in the pudding ....... do you trust the corporations enough to eat their GMO's ? Answer honestly now ...

Yes, I do. And yes, my fiancée feeds our son GMO all the time... she's the geneticist you apparently missed me talking about, in my IMMEDIATELY PREVIOUS POST.

I don't trust corporations one bit; I'm a former field biologist who worked in environmental protection against corporations. That has nothing to do with whether the GMO are safe enough to eat... that's up to researchers, and I am comfortable with their conclusions.

I do concur that the companies like Monsanto need to be better-regulated and monitored extremely closely by impartial agencies. I am in favor of labeling GMO products, but I think it's a shame that this will cause the ignorant/misguided people to fear it and will make future GMO benefits less available to me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 09:20 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 09:11 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 08:55 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Laugh out load

The evidence is there, the elite want to eliminate half the worlds population and so whats 70,000 sterilization of mere thrid world Kenyan girls. They deem sterilizing them, good for them...and so no legal action has happened against Bill and his organization nor against the UN for doing this forced sterilization under deception.

Oh, for fuck's sake, with the conspiracy theories.

Kenya has a population of 46 million people. 70,000 sterilized people would be... wait for it: 0.0017% of the population. Not the best mechanism for "eliminat[ing] half the world's population", eh?

For a guy who claims to be so in love with math, you don't seem very good at it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 09:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 09:11 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  The evidence is there, the elite want to eliminate half the worlds population and so whats 70,000 sterilization of mere thrid world Kenyan girls. They deem sterilizing them, good for them...and so no legal action has happened against Bill and his organization nor against the UN for doing this forced sterilization under deception.

Oh, for fuck's sake, with the conspiracy theories.

Kenya has a population of 46 million people. 70,000 sterilized people would be... wait for it: 0.0017% of the population. Not the best mechanism for "eliminat[ing] half the world's population", eh?

For a guy who claims to be so in love with math, you don't seem very good at it.

In the West, one womans deceptive forced sterilization would cause an uproar, and you say.... what does 70,000 sterilizations of Kenyan girls matter ?

I think your not so loving heart is coming out Rocket , or your disregard for the poor is coming out. Its racist to think that these Kenyan girls are worth less than white Western girls. Their individual importance is just as IMPORTANT.

As a long time missionary on the field, and as a husband of a brown 3rd world wife, (who is absolutely beautiful in mind, body and spirit) I would DIFFER with you, in your negating the crime done to these Kenyan women.

Do edit your remarks or change your opinion ?

Black lives MATTER

and

Kenyan girls lives MATTER
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