GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
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22-08-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 10:49 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Until you have and know the principle, of
DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU..

you will need help..... this goes for Rocket as well, what he doesn;t want done to his financee should be the same principle as what he doesn;t want done to the innocent and defenseless girls of Kenya.

FULL STOP, or Selah

Are you kidding me!?!?

Frusty

Look, jackass. It is not happening. There are no 70,000 Kenyan girls deliberately sterilized by the Bill Gates Foundation. It's an anti-vaccination scare. To do as you suggest and stop vaccinating in Africa would kill millions of people.

I cannot believe you could read what I wrote above and come to any other conclusion than that I would never want anything done to ANYONE that is harmful. YOU are the one advocating for a position that is harmful to the poor, to the dark-skinned, and to those suffering in disease-impacted areas.

By believing in and advocating for that rubbish story, you are empowering people who stand to do a great deal of harm to your fellow human beings.

As a Secular Humanist, I find your position disgusting. To try to defend those ideas by claiming I am hard-hearted or racist makes you morally reprehensible.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 10:53 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Controlling the population through forced vaccine sterilization is not science and not beneficiasl but dacronian and elitism to the max. Forcing so called reduction of the worlds population through introduced diseases, and more wars, and sterilization is hardly something to be honoured because it comes from the ruling class.

At least we know your heros, Rocket..... and their method of control... genocide. So Rocket, could you answer my question about your financee, do you want her to be forced into a sterilization vaccine ?

Is there any thinking atheists that are aginst GMO's, or are they afraid to voice their opinion, against so called beneficial science forced on them by those above them.

Learn to spell. Or stop typing.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-08-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(21-08-2015 07:31 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Unfortunately athiests usually worship man and his so called advancements, whether they destroy or attempt to help mankind.

For in this thread lets discuss in science and the humanities, GMO's and all the new patented plants that the bog corporations have developed through gene manipulation to steal from small farmers, and steal from poor families...all for the sake of making capital for their non caring share holders, for money is their god.

This is the fields that university indocrinated geneticists mainly flock to, as these rather vile heartless corporations of man and money hire these hired guns to exploit farmers, make them pay for new varieties, destroy their fields, destroy our bodies with their cancer producing new plants, and destroy our pocketbooks so as impoverish hard workers.

So do proceed to either agree with GMO's and genetic manipulation as an exploitive tool against the poor to help rid excess populations and genocide of the poor or think and have the courage to be against the mis-use of science because these corporations have no morals, and only look at their bottom line.

I for one am against them, please state whether you are pro GMO or not in your responses......

Be objective not subjective, show that atheists can have a heart and can be moral.

From a purely objective point of view they just taste better.

#sigh
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22-08-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 07:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 09:49 AM)natachan Wrote:  I'm going to ignore the fluff and name calling and cut to the actual content of the OP.

Because, (hold on to your hats folks) you actually made one valid point. That is the one about how the new strains of GMO crops are prohibitively expensive. This is a valid point, and I could also point to the possibilities of farmers whose non-GMO crops get pollinated by GMOs. Are these farmers open to lawsuits now? Some would say yes. While I'm usually a staunch capitalist I'm not sure how I feel about that, those farmers didn't choose to participate in the system and didn't choose to get GMO crops but they end up with them.

For the health concerns they are not well founded. There is no reason to think that GMOs would be more dangerous to eat than other crops. And they have improved yields and saved many many people from starvation. I call that a good thing.

In actuality even this is not much of a point. It is not possible to sue for incidental pollination. It never has been. It has never occurred. And so that has nothing to do with genetic modification in any case...

The basic economic realities in effect make the price irrelevant as well. If the strain generates a higher yield or requires fewer outside inputs (eg pesticides) then it is worth a higher price. If it is not worth it, no one will buy it.

Didn't know about the first bit. I had been told they could be sued over it. Will look into it.

As to the markets making price irrelivent, that's not entirely true. These crops still require a large up front investment. If you are growing off seed that you keep from previous yeilds (things you can't do with many GMOs), or if you are just scraping by then you might not have the capital to buy new GMO seeds. These plants are not widely available to the poorest farmers, such as those in the third world where they are most needed.
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22-08-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results

From a purely objective point of view they just taste better.
[/quote]

Many poisons have a sugar coating.

It trickes those that are shallow and lazy and just dont care.

Would you want your daughter sterilized unbeknowst to her and against her will ?
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22-08-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 10:53 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Controlling the population through forced vaccine sterilization is not science and not beneficiasl but dacronian and elitism to the max. Forcing so called reduction of the worlds population through introduced diseases, and more wars, and sterilization is hardly something to be honoured because it comes from the ruling class.

What part of "0.0017%" do you not get? THEY CANNOT do as you allege, and "control the population" of a country with 46,000,000 people that way.

If you knew my positions here at all, you'd know I'm one of the staunchest critics of imperialism and the ruling elite. I'm damned near to being a socialist, in that regard... but your ideas are simply bullshit, and anyone who can use a calculator to divide 70,000 / 46,000,000 can tell you why they're bullshit.

(22-08-2015 10:53 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  At least we know your heros, Rocket..... and their method of control... genocide. So Rocket, could you answer my question about your financee, do you want her to be forced into a sterilization vaccine ?

I addressed this in the previous reply, before I saw you'd written this, but I'll say it again: no one should be force-sterilized. But you're full of shit that it's happening.

Yes, the Gates Foundation people are heroes, and if you didn't have so much anti-vaccine woo in your life, you'd see the things they do that have kept millions alive. They are heroes. I know people who have done work with the organization, and I know their character; there is no POSSIBLE WAY that these people I have known would ever stand silently by and allow their Foundation to do such a thing, let alone participate in it, and that is a trait of love shared by almost every person in such organizations. For you to slander them like this infuriates me, and is why I called you despicable.

And I swear to the FSM, I'd beat the fuck out of you for saying that bullshit to my face, claiming I want bad things to happen to poor people that I don't want happening to my Beloved. I am a Secular Humanist. Look it up. It infuriates me that you'd resort to these forms of emotional blackmail (not even good ones) to try to make your point: "What, you're not racist, are you?" "Are you really that hard-hearted?" "Do you want this to happen to those girls but not your fiancée?" Anyone who's so manipulative deserves to get his ass beat into a bloody pulp.

(22-08-2015 10:53 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Is there any thinking atheists that are aginst GMO's, or are they afraid to voice their opinion, against so called beneficial science forced on them by those above them.

No one is afraid to voice their opinion, here, as I'm sure even a casual reading of the forums in which we fight (debate) each other fiercely over a number of subjects would demonstrate to an honest person who looked.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 11:01 AM)natachan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 07:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  In actuality even this is not much of a point. It is not possible to sue for incidental pollination. It never has been. It has never occurred. And so that has nothing to do with genetic modification in any case...

The basic economic realities in effect make the price irrelevant as well. If the strain generates a higher yield or requires fewer outside inputs (eg pesticides) then it is worth a higher price. If it is not worth it, no one will buy it.

Didn't know about the first bit. I had been told they could be sued over it. Will look into it.

As to the markets making price irrelivent, that's not entirely true. These crops still require a large up front investment. If you are growing off seed that you keep from previous yeilds (things you can't do with many GMOs), or if you are just scraping by then you might not have the capital to buy new GMO seeds. These plants are not widely available to the poorest farmers, such as those in the third world where they are most needed.

Yes and many of these GMO's require fertilization, when the old standards didn;t. But Monsanto will provide the fertilizer for a PRICE.

Their purpose is money and not to improve the lives of farmers or consumers.

Thanks for the comments.
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22-08-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 11:06 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 11:00 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  

From a purely objective point of view they just taste better.

Many poisons have a sugar coating.

It trickes those that are shallow and lazy and just dont care.

Would you want your daughter sterilized unbeknowst to her and against her will ?
[/quote]

Seriously, are you high?

And who the hell is running around waging sterilization attacks?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-08-2015, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 11:26 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
(22-08-2015 11:06 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 11:00 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  From a purely objective point of view they just taste better.

Many poisons have a sugar coating.
It trickes those that are shallow and lazy and just dont care.

Don't like anything sweet.

(22-08-2015 11:06 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Would you want your daughter sterilized unbeknowst to her and against her will ?

My wife was fully vaccinated and she pumped out 4 kids. My kids were fully vaccinated and they don't look no worse for wear to me. I mean from a purely objective point of view.

There is shit out there to be scared shitless of but GMOs and vaccines ain't them.

#sigh
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22-08-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: GMO's and genetic manipulation has produced horrific results
Those that worship science tend to not want to believe their dear science would ever hurt anyone or that vile individuals would ever use their dear science to hurt innocent people, especially those most vulnerable 3rd world girls.

But in real life, in the real world... real motivations by those that want more money and power dictate they will do whatever it takes to meet their aims and get them to their selfish goals.

In the real world, as Einstein found out, making nuclear weapons so powerful as to destroy millions, wasn;t enough of a deterant to stop those in power from dropping them, making more of them, and using them as a means or threat to be even more powerful.

Einstein was brilliant, but didn't understand mankind very well, and was rather naive in his complicity in making nuclear bombs.

As before so again..

GMO's are horrific...... and are not meant to help mankind feed themselves, only the corporations to feed on the poor.
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