GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
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11-08-2015, 09:06 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(10-08-2015 10:23 AM)mgoering Wrote:  I noticed that those who read the OT with any sort of critical eye, make the observation, and rightly so, that God is a beast: slaughtering humans throughout for smallest infractions (collecting firewood on the Sabbath, trying to steady the GD Arc of the Covenant that is on the verge of tipping over, poking fun at a bald man -- all sentenced to death in the most inhumane way). But what I've also noticed is that nearly all these killings are a result of God's jealousy and anger as illustrated in the following verse:

for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. -- Deut. 6-15

Strange thing is, the envy and wrath displayed in the above verse are two of the SEVEN DEADLY SINS that us mere mortals are suppposed to guard ourselves against. So, not only has God created us to be "fallen" where we have no choice but to be sinful, but he also sets a really bad example of how a good and LOVING and MERCIFUL person should be.

I'm sorry. I get so irritated when I hear people say that God is LOVING and MERCIFUL! that I want to just choke them. How do people reconcile the evidence of such a vile being in the OT with what they believe is a being that is LOVING and MERCIFUL?

I guess I'm making two points here and challenge anyone to refute them:

1. God is anything but loving and merciful.

2. God is a sinner, and a DEADLY sinner at that!


Meh, there isn't any evidence for God, so I don't really care much about his character lol. The fictional "God" character in the bible is cruel, buuuut he's also an a fugging idiot who can't do anything right, not worth worshiping. Now, Roger Federer, almost 34 years old and still making Grand Slam finals, THAT's impressive. Thumbsup
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11-08-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Original sin Alla. What sin was you talking about? You are familiar with the christian incarnation and atonement theory right? if not, let me know since your continuing education is apparently needed, and an endless issue.
What is original sin?
Adam and Eve transgressed. There is a difference between sin and transgression.
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Really? Citation please. Explain to me how you arrive at the 99.9%. Remember, as per the fairy tale, god is omnipotent and omniscient. Rolleyes
As per the fairy tail if God knew 100% that Abraham would be willing to kill Isaac He wouldn't test him.
God sent His angel so He would find out what Abraham would do. Angel was there and when he saw that Abraham was ready to kill Isaac he stopped him and said: NOW I know that thou fearest God
Angel reported to God what he saw. So, God would know. God is omniscient because whatever happens in the future He WILL know if He wants to know or if He needs to know. Nothing can be hidden from Him. He has His spies(eyes).Smile
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Celestial kingdom huh? And you know of its existence because.....
I have knowledge about it because there are revelations from God about Celestial Kingdom and Spirit confirmes to me that it is true. I believe Spirit. I have no reason not trust Him.
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Just in case you missed it, and I am constantly having to teach you your own religion, refer to the chart below...
I don't know what you want me to say about?
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 04:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  Do you remember what Jesus said about laws of God? He said that man is not for the law but the law is for man.

Truly? Consider You do realize not one word ever written by jesus was by someone who actually knew him, and jesus never wrote a single word down on record....so how do you know what jesus allegedly said? Shake your head No You don't.
They all knew Him. Jesus visits His people/His Church. He is alive. He visited them in the 1st century after resurrection.
I know Jesus through the Holy Ghost.
When one Spirit talks to another spirit(me) it is amazing experience.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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12-08-2015, 05:22 AM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(11-08-2015 09:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Original sin Alla. What sin was you talking about? You are familiar with the christian incarnation and atonement theory right? if not, let me know since your continuing education is apparently needed, and an endless issue.
What is original sin?
Adam and Eve transgressed. There is a difference between sin and transgression.
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Really? Citation please. Explain to me how you arrive at the 99.9%. Remember, as per the fairy tale, god is omnipotent and omniscient. Rolleyes
As per the fairy tail if God knew 100% that Abraham would be willing to kill Isaac He wouldn't test him.
God sent His angel so He would find out what Abraham would do. Angel was there and when he saw that Abraham was ready to kill Isaac he stopped him and said: NOW I know that thou fearest God
Angel reported to God what he saw. So, God would know. God is omniscient because whatever happens in the future He WILL know if He wants to know or if He needs to know. Nothing can be hidden from Him. He has His spies(eyes).Smile
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Celestial kingdom huh? And you know of its existence because.....
I have knowledge about it because there are revelations from God about Celestial Kingdom and Spirit confirmes to me that it is true. I believe Spirit. I have no reason not trust Him.
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Just in case you missed it, and I am constantly having to teach you your own religion, refer to the chart below...
I don't know what you want me to say about?
(11-08-2015 04:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Truly? Consider You do realize not one word ever written by jesus was by someone who actually knew him, and jesus never wrote a single word down on record....so how do you know what jesus allegedly said? Shake your head No You don't.
They all knew Him. Jesus visits His people/His Church. He is alive. He visited them in the 1st century after resurrection.
I know Jesus through the Holy Ghost.
When one Spirit talks to another spirit(me) it is amazing experience.

I have a new apologist strategy for you to try:

[Image: resized_jesus-says-meme-generator-jesus-...4816b4.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-08-2015, 05:26 AM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(11-08-2015 03:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 09:40 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Ugh I have heard this similar reasoning from my pastor when I was a christian. So God's solution was to kill women, children, and animals because he was mad at the men?

Many(not all) men and women who worshiped idols, sacrificed their children to idols, had sexual relationships with children and animals.
It was not fair to those children to live in this kind of society. It was not fair for future generations to be born in society were they had no choice to live different way.
These men and women had to go to spirit prison, their children had to be taken to another(better) part of spirit world.
Some children were old enough. They already learned evil, they wouldn't change in this life if God let them stay here on Earth more time.
When innocent people are taken away from God it is because his time on Earth was over. Death is the only way to enter spirit prison.
Suffering(painful death) is part of this life. In this life we have to learn about pain so we can become like Gods who know not only what good is but also what evil is.
God knows what physical pain and painful death are. We have to know it if we want to become ALL-knowing like Gods, like one of Them.
Animals who had sex with humans could not look at people just like as their masters. They already looked at humans like at their sexual partners. They had to go.
(11-08-2015 09:40 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Or what about the guy who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath?
It was is very important for God to preserve His covenant people. They have very special mission.
Their mission is to preserve true religion for future generations. No other people could do this mission at that time. Gentiles were not ready for the Gospel.
God's people were surrounded by enemies who wanted to destroy them.
God could not afford at that time that his covenant people would start to teach their children to do wrong choices. When you start keeping Sabbath day holy you start to fall away.
In those times when Gentiles were not ready yet, God had to be more strict with His people.

(11-08-2015 09:40 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Or what about having David's wives raped because David sinned?
Or God killing David's baby for David's sin? Or the kids who were mauled by bears (presumably sent by God) for making fun of someone's baldness?
God had to be more strict. He had to preserve true religion until times of the fullness of the Gentiles.

You're just making this up as you go along, right?

Laugh out load

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12-08-2015, 05:44 AM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(11-08-2015 04:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  If one child starts to teach his/her younger siblings to have sex with each other....

....then it's probably because you're a Mormon, and you raised your kids with fucked up Mormon beliefs.



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12-08-2015, 06:13 AM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(10-08-2015 10:23 AM)mgoering Wrote:  I guess I'm making two points here and challenge anyone to refute them:

1. God is anything but loving and merciful.

2. God is a sinner, and a DEADLY sinner at that!

The apologists have something for this. I'll see if I can remember how it goes:
  • The rules are for us, not God.
  • God has no moral imperative not to kill us. He created us.
  • Omnibenevolent doesn't mean what you think it means.

Or, to word it another way: God is the perfection of morality, so saying God is moral is basically like saying "God is the most like himself", which is a tautology, or course. Now, we just label his actions as "good", not because of what they are or do, but because of who is doing them. So, by any reasonable metric, God is a complete dick, but we'll label his dickish behavior as "good" and then chastise anyone who points out this futility for "judging God".
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12-08-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
So,
1)God made a covenant with ancient house of Israel.
2)It means that He gave them a mission - to preserve true religion until the time of fullness of the Gentiles. In those old days no nation(Gentiles) was ready to worship true God. They would never give up their idols/false gods. Never, ever.
3)Prophets were leaders or (if we can say Presidents) of the house of Israel. God was giving laws, NOT men. House of Israel could live by those laws. People agreed with God that they will follow conditions of the contract and that penalty of breaking the laws is severe. They agreed.
They knew why it was so important to live by laws of God. If they wouldn't do it, they would become like Gentiles and they wouldn't fulfill their mission.
Because they were isolated society with laws from God and NOT from men they could do death penalty according to God's laws. It was not a crime according to their society.
God also was bound by His promise to Jacob.
Now when there is time of the fullness of the Gentiles house of Israel is not isolated. House of Israel has NEW mission - to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles everywhere upon the face of Earth. House of Israel (God's people) live in different countries.
They have to abide by the laws of their countries.
God can not tell now to stone those who break laws. It would mean that His people have to become criminals in their own countries. God would never ask His people to become breakers of the laws of the countries they live in.

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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12-08-2015, 01:27 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 05:44 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 04:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  If one child starts to teach his/her younger siblings to have sex with each other....

....then it's probably because you're a Mormon, and you raised your kids with fucked up Mormon beliefs.




Those people are not God's Church. They fell away.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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12-08-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 01:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 05:44 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ....then it's probably because you're a Mormon, and you raised your kids with fucked up Mormon beliefs.




Those people are not God's Church. They fell away.

You "fell away" from sanity. Sad to see someone under such a complete and utter mindF**K try and have a discussion with a crowd of folks that have not willingly surrendered their ability to think and reason. Not much more to say.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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12-08-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 01:32 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  You "fell away" from sanity.
To believe in God and in His Doctrine(Gospel) doesn't always mean to fell away from sanity.

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
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