GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
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12-08-2015, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2015 09:59 AM by Commonsensei.)
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 01:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 01:32 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  You "fell away" from sanity.
To believe in God and in His Doctrine(Gospel) doesn't always mean to fell away from sanity.

To believe in a invisible being that lives in the clouds (Outside Time/Space, heart, mind, the Planet Kolob or where ever that isn't within a realistic distance) Is not rational. To make the clam that you know what this invisible man is thinking, doing and wanting, this to is not rational. To say that you and YOU alone are aware of the desires of this being, that directly contradicts other people's interpretations.

Quote:Those people are not God's Church. They fell away.

We can pull in any one of the other Theists into here. Call of Wild, Q, DrewPaul, . Who all also have made clams of visitations from Jesus and they to will contradict yours, and each other.

To steal a quote from Same Harris

Quote:"Just take, for example, the people who think Elvis is still alive.

What's wrong with this claim?

Why is this claim not viciating our academic departments and corporations?

I'll tell you why and it's very simple we have not passed laws against believing Elvis is still alive. The problem is that whenever somebody seriously represents his belief that Elvis is still alive, in a conversation, on a first date at a lecture, at a job interview, he immediately pays a price.

He pays a price in ill-concealed laughter.

Then he could rattle on about: "This is not a scientific claim. This is a matter of faith. When I look at you, I see you might be Elvis."

He can wave his hands over some bread and say some latin words about Elvis. But that would just make him insane.

But do the same thing and say Jesus and that would just make you Catholic.

Claiming Elvis is still alive is not sane. Claiming that a man is going to return 2000+ years after his death is not sane. Claiming animals can talk is not sane. Claiming voices talk to you is not sane.

Now your next comment may be if you just pray. Just pray and ask him into your heart and he will make his presence no.

I've done it. I did it for 29 years, hold heatedly! I meant every word! And not one response. The facts at that point in my life were so abundantly clear, I was always talking to myself.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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12-08-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 01:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)God made a covenant with ancient house of Israel.

Far more likely: Some humans in Israel said that a god had made a covenant with them, even though there was never a god there to begin with. Without an actual god, there can be no covenant and all the deals and promises are just empty air.
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12-08-2015, 05:39 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 04:41 PM)Astreja Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 01:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)God made a covenant with ancient house of Israel.

Far more likely: Some humans in Israel said that a god had made a covenant with them, even though there was never a god there to begin with. Without an actual god, there can be no covenant and all the deals and promises are just empty air.
I agree. But there is Spirit also. Spirit teaches/testifies that God made covenant with ancient Israel.
He can teach you too.

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12-08-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To believe in a invisible being that lives in the clouds (Outside Time/Space, heart, mind, the Planet Kolob or where ever that isn't within a realistic distance) Is not rational.
I agree. It is not rational to believe that somebody invisible lives in clouds, outside time/space, heart, mind. I don't believe in this.
It is not rational to believe that there are intelligent beings somewhere on another planet. There is no point in believing it just for the sake of believing.
But it is rational to have faith in God who speaks to you through and by the power of the Holy Ghost.
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To make the clam that you know what this invisible man is thinking, doing and wanting, this to is not rational.
I agree, but It is rational if He also speaks to those who hear my claim.
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To say that you and YOU alone are aware of the desires of this being, that directly contradicts other people's interpretations.
I never said this.

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12-08-2015, 06:27 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2015 07:10 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To believe in a invisible being that lives in the clouds (Outside Time/Space, heart, mind, the Planet Kolob or where ever that isn't within a realistic distance) Is not rational.
I agree. It is not rational to believe that somebody invisible lives in clouds, outside time/space, heart, mind. I don't believe in this.
It is not rational to believe that there are intelligent beings somewhere on another planet. There is no point in believing it just for the sake of believing.
But it is rational to have faith in God who speaks to you through and by the power of the Holy Ghost.
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To make the clam that you know what this invisible man is thinking, doing and wanting, this to is not rational.
I agree, but It is rational if He also speaks to those who hear my claim.
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To say that you and YOU alone are aware of the desires of this being, that directly contradicts other people's interpretations.
I never said this.

"But it is rational to have faith in God who speaks to you through and by the power of the Holy Ghost."

This is woo salad with BS dressing. The voices in ones head is no indication of a god, it is however, the indication of mental illness.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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12-08-2015, 07:04 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
I am beginning to fear that unless I skip over everything but the first word (her name) and the last couple words (signature line) of Alla's posts, I may begin to lose IQ points.

Indeed, I am beginning to fear that the above precaution may not be sufficient.

No matter what dressing you use, there's only so much word salad a person can eat before they become damaged from a bad intellectual diet.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-08-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 01:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  So,
1)God made a covenant with ancient house of Israel.
2)It means that He gave them a mission - to preserve true religion until the time of fullness of the Gentiles. In those old days no nation(Gentiles) was ready to worship true God. They would never give up their idols/false gods. Never, ever.
3)Prophets were leaders or (if we can say Presidents) of the house of Israel. God was giving laws, NOT men. House of Israel could live by those laws. People agreed with God that they will follow conditions of the contract and that penalty of breaking the laws is severe. They agreed.
They knew why it was so important to live by laws of God. If they wouldn't do it, they would become like Gentiles and they wouldn't fulfill their mission.
Because they were isolated society with laws from God and NOT from men they could do death penalty according to God's laws. It was not a crime according to their society.
God also was bound by His promise to Jacob.
Now when there is time of the fullness of the Gentiles house of Israel is not isolated. House of Israel has NEW mission - to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles everywhere upon the face of Earth. House of Israel (God's people) live in different countries.
They have to abide by the laws of their countries.
God can not tell now to stone those who break laws. It would mean that His people have to become criminals in their own countries. God would never ask His people to become breakers of the laws of the countries they live in.

Can’t use “holy” scripture to prove “holy” scripture, circular reasoning. Got anything else?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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12-08-2015, 07:19 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To believe in a invisible being that lives in the clouds (Outside Time/Space, heart, mind, the Planet Kolob or where ever that isn't within a realistic distance) Is not rational.
* I agree. It is not rational to believe that somebody invisible lives in clouds, outside time/space, heart, mind. I don't believe in this.
It is not rational to believe that there are intelligent beings somewhere on another planet. There is no point in believing it just for the sake of believing.

*2 But it is rational to have faith in God who speaks to you through and by the power of the Holy Ghost.

You agreed with me, then in the same breath contradicted yourself.

I'll break it down more.

Sanity: the ability to think and behave in a normal and rational manner; sound mental health.

Rational based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

Reason the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.

Logic reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

I stated a couple of examples, such as invisibility for one. And you agreed with me. *1

Then you said it was more reasonable to believe in a unseeable being, with a conversation with another unseeable being. AKA invisible. *2

Invisibility unable to be seen; not visible to the eye.

Maybe the confusion for me starts off with your definition of a god?

If I was walking down the street. And turned my head and saw what you would call a god. What would I see? What would distinguish this being from anything else? It must have some for of vocal cords to speak right?

(12-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To make the clam that you know what this invisible man is thinking, doing and wanting, this to is not rational.
I agree, but It is rational if He also speaks to those who hear my claim.

Again you contradict yourself. You state you agreed with claiming communication with this being is not rational. Then say you hear his voice.

How would you know that this being is telling the truth? What if it was an evil being lying to you? How would you be able to distinguish this from a good being?

Maybe once you give me the definition for your god we'll be able to clear this up.

(12-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 03:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  To say that you and YOU alone are aware of the desires of this being, that directly contradicts other people's interpretations.
I never said this.

Yeah...but, yea see, you did.

In this quote you make a statement that you had a form of communication with a Ghost. And because you had this "conversation" you got the low down on everything that needed to be known.
(31-07-2015 02:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  I know it through personal revelation by the power of the Holly Ghost. The love that I felt at that moment was undeniable.
When the Holy Ghost testifies to me of something
1)I know it is true
2)I can not deny what is true.
You will never understand what I am talking about unless you experience what I experience.

In this quote you state that you know better then the holy book('s) that you where telling us that we needed to read. to get closer to god. But without the communication with the ghost. We wouldn't be able to distinguish the good parts from the bad.
(31-07-2015 05:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Translations of the Bible are inconsistent. That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only.

In this quote you again say your faith is better then, other people's. You use you "faith" which you hold higher then other's as your grounds for evidence.
(31-07-2015 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  First I have faith, then I act according to my faith, then I have evidence.

Here you brush aside eveidince for the historicy of a person call Jesus Christ. You also brush aside the bible again, saying you know better. Because you got the low down from this invisible man.
(01-08-2015 06:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  I do not build my faith in Christ on history. I do not build my faith in Christ on the Biblical historical account.
All this is not important for someone who has a personal testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here you say you state you had a personel converstaion. With the Invisiable man, (ghost, spirit) Same thing. And hearing this invisiable mans voice was good enough for you.
(11-08-2015 09:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  I have knowledge about it because there are revelations from God about Celestial Kingdom and Spirit confirmes to me that it is true. I believe Spirit. I have no reason not trust Him.


Here you abolish an entire religion. Who's founder (mind you) made the same clams. Speaking to God, and Jesus directly.
(12-08-2015 01:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 05:44 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ....then it's probably because you're a Mormon, and you raised your kids with fucked up Mormon beliefs.

Those people are not God's Church. They fell away.


Should I find more?

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Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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12-08-2015, 09:42 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(12-08-2015 05:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 04:41 PM)Astreja Wrote:  Far more likely: Some humans in Israel said that a god had made a covenant with them, even though there was never a god there to begin with. Without an actual god, there can be no covenant and all the deals and promises are just empty air.
I agree. But there is Spirit also. Spirit teaches/testifies that God made covenant with ancient Israel.
He can teach you too.

Is it possible for you to stop pulling everything out of your ass?

Pulling stuff out of your ass= Holy Spirit= Talking voices inside your head= mumbling things to yourself.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-08-2015, 10:04 PM
RE: GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL
(11-08-2015 08:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Do you not see how crazy that sounds?
No, I don't.
(11-08-2015 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God was against human sacrifice so he went on a smiting spree and smited other nations--
Did He say that it had something to do with sacrifice?
(11-08-2015 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Jesus did have to be killed to save us.
Hmm.. what if nobody wanted to kill Him? what if His killers Him?
Would God say: kill Him?
Jesus did not saved us from sins on the cross. He died on the cross, His suffering was over on the cross. But everything started in Gethsemane. This is the place where Jesus took all our sins upon Himself. He suffered there for us. And that was the sacrifice - suffering for us by taking our PAINS and SINS.
(11-08-2015 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Animals were really sacrificed--they were not sacrificed symbolically.
This is not what I said. They were killed literally but God doesn't need dead animals.
We need those rituals. Those rituals are SYMBOLS. They teach something. They remind us something. They remind us about Jesus and His sacrifice(go through pains) to save us from sins and death.
(11-08-2015 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God is all powerful and can do anything He wants--but didn't want to try and figure out other ways besides smiting to get his point across?
What to figure out? how to punish(to teach) His children differently? or how to save us from sins and death differently?

Quote:'jennybee' pid='830395' dateline='1439332730']
Do you not see how crazy that sounds?


Quote: No, I don't.

Bingo! This is your big problem.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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