GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
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10-05-2017, 05:44 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 04:36 PM)John Derderian Wrote:  No citation, then. I watched the election night show, and he did not say any of these things.

If citations are so important to you, and you remember that exact show, please post it here. Until then?
No citation, then.

(10-05-2017 04:36 PM)John Derderian Wrote:  False. You stated that Maher said the following:
Quote:I don't watch Real Time w/ Bill Maher, much anymore, due to his ridiculous comments about Trump. Gonna become Hitler, brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again, blah blah blah. Bullshit.
These are absurd exaggerations, things Maher has never said on the show, either joking or seriously. These are indeed three great big straw men. Your doubling down on your claim, calling them "not even argument, simple observation," does not make them any less false.

Of course they're exaggerations; I don't have a photographic memory. But since you do, and no doubt have better skills at navigating computers than I, please post that show. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Bill saying, in so many words, that Trump is/would be/could be/whatever the next Hitler, and that people should go out, while they still could, to vote for Hilary, for that very reason, with a straight serious face. Him comparing Trump to Hitler, excluding all those other claims I made, is enough to render his future warnings against the NEXT Trump null and void, to the people that matter most. Republican voters we'd like to see become Democratic voters.

But even if Bill didn't say those exact words, or didn't even make that claim indirectly, it doesn't change the point I was trying to make before you and Brian decided to obscure it by nitpicking my post:

That if Democrats, and 'liberal' News people (like Maher), start throwing around ridiculous claims, like the GOP's legislature will make rape legal Dodgy , or whatever, it could undermine their credibility to future listeners. Can you agree with that? I don't refrain from watching Fox News because I think Bill O'Reilly is a waste of space (he is, tho; confirmed), but because I know they are all full of shit, and lying for the Republican cause. If Bill Maher, or anyone else who likes singing the praises of Democrats, tosses out false information then there's as many reasons for Repubs to dismiss them as there are for me to dismiss the asshats at Fox News.

Couple questions to you, and anyone else:

Would you not like to see politicians from the Democratic party, and the News people who promote them, stick to reporting facts, only? Personally, I'd like to see the Republicans being the only ones making idiotic comments.

Do we want to see, every time the Republicans claim Obama's coming for our guns, Democrats claiming Trump is going to make rape legal? Because, in that instance, both sides sound quite silly, and neither look to be worth my time.

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10-05-2017, 10:13 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Couple questions to you, and anyone else:

Would you not like to see politicians from the Democratic party, and the News people who promote them, stick to reporting facts, only? Personally, I'd like to see the Republicans being the only ones making idiotic comments.

Do we want to see, every time the Republicans claim Obama's coming for our guns, Democrats claiming Trump is going to make rape legal? Because, in that instance, both sides sound quite silly, and neither look to be worth my time.

I would like facts reported, not just political opinion masquerading as facts.


For what it is worth, the Washington Post fact checker awarded the claim four Pinocchios:

"Despite critics’ claims, the GOP health bill doesn’t classify rape or sexual assault as a preexisting condition"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact...7f9b9bf74b

Politifact rated the claim "mostly false":
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...lt-pre-ex/


And CNN editor Chris Cilizza wrote of this among a bullet point list of "liberal conspiracy theories":
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/trump-liberals/
Quote:Consider that in the last week alone, liberal outrage has been sparked on (at least) four occasions by alleged incidents that simply aren't accurate.
...
1. There was no health care vote beer celebration
2. Rape and sexual assault would not be pre-existing conditions
3. The FCC is not really targeting Stephen Colbert
4. The chief usher was not fired over a disagreement with the Trumps
...the article fills in the details. read them if you care for the background.


Fact should matter, but look at the complete ass Brian37 makes of himself, and just look back at how many others gleefully pile on to defending a lie. Partisanship like this is ugly nomatter who does it.
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11-05-2017, 08:44 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 04:36 PM)John Derderian Wrote:  No citation, then. I watched the election night show, and he did not say any of these things.
Of course they're exaggerations; I don't have a photographic memory. But since you do, and no doubt have better skills at navigating computers than I, please post that show. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Bill saying, in so many words, that Trump is/would be/could be/whatever the next Hitler, and that people should go out, while they still could, to vote for Hilary, for that very reason, with a straight serious face. Him comparing Trump to Hitler, excluding all those other claims I made, is enough to render his future warnings against the NEXT Trump null and void, to the people that matter most. Republican voters we'd like to see become Democratic voters.
"Excluding all those other claims I made." It was exactly "all those other claims" that I pointed out as absurdly exaggerated straw men. You now admit, after restating they were "Simple fact," that they are false.

Without these false claims of "blacks being made slaves again" and so on, your argument consists only of "Bill Maher told people to vote against Trump." Without the exaggerations, this does not support your "both sides are just as bad" rant. If you have to resort to extreme exaggerations and outright falsehood to make your point, that's a sign that maybe your point is false.
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11-05-2017, 09:08 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Couple questions to you, and anyone else:
...
Do we want to see, every time the Republicans claim Obama's coming for our guns, Democrats claiming Trump is going to make rape legal? Because, in that instance, both sides sound quite silly, and neither look to be worth my time.
This is another exaggeration. There's a big difference between saying the health care plan treats rape as a preexisting condition for coverage decisions, and saying that "Trump is going to make rape legal." No Democratic politicians are claiming that "Trump is going to make rape legal." None.

You seem unable to make your "both sides are equally bad" argument without grossly distorting the statements on one side.
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11-05-2017, 09:18 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  If citations are so important to you, and you remember that exact show, please post it here. Until then?
I shouldn't have to do your homework for you, but okay. Transcripts of those shows are available on the HBO website. So far, I don't see anyplace where Maher claims that under Trump "brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again."
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11-05-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Would you not like to see politicians from the Democratic party, and the News people who promote them, stick to reporting facts, only? Personally, I'd like to see the Republicans being the only ones making idiotic comments.

Personally, I would like to see politicians and news people from both sides stick to reporting the facts. If only one side is going to do so, yes, I would prefer that it be the Democrats (because I'm a Democrat), but it would be far better if everyone could "play nice" and get back to discussing the issues in good faith, rather than just demonizing the other side. I know, not going to happen, but a man can dream.
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11-05-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
As for rape being a pre-existing condition, that doesn't even make sense, and I don't believe that any health-care bill would make such a claim. What I can believe is that they might define pregnancy as a pre-existing condition (in the sense that they don't want abortion to be considered health care), and not distinguish between the pregnancy coming about by way of consensual sex vs. rape. As reprehensible as that is, it is not the same as calling rape a pre-existing condition (again, that doesn't even make sense -- rape is an act, not a condition), and it's worlds away from legalizing rape.

The things that Republicans are actually doing are bad enough without making wild straw man claims. We (Democrats) don't want to be the boy who cried wolf.
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11-05-2017, 12:05 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(11-05-2017 08:44 AM)John Derderian Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 05:44 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Of course they're exaggerations; I don't have a photographic memory. But since you do, and no doubt have better skills at navigating computers than I, please post that show. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Bill saying, in so many words, that Trump is/would be/could be/whatever the next Hitler, and that people should go out, while they still could, to vote for Hilary, for that very reason, with a straight serious face. Him comparing Trump to Hitler, excluding all those other claims I made, is enough to render his future warnings against the NEXT Trump null and void, to the people that matter most. Republican voters we'd like to see become Democratic voters.
"Excluding all those other claims I made." It was exactly "all those other claims" that I pointed out as absurdly exaggerated straw men. You now admit, after restating they were "Simple fact," that they are false.

Without these false claims of "blacks being made slaves again" and so on, your argument consists only of "Bill Maher told people to vote against Trump." Without the exaggerations, this does not support your "both sides are just as bad" rant. If you have to resort to extreme exaggerations and outright falsehood to make your point, that's a sign that maybe your point is false.

Until you produce the show, I'm going to assume my memory of something I saw with my very own eyes, is true. My memory does suck, so it is entirely possible that I may be wrong.

So for the sake of argument lets say I did remember wrong, and misquoted a fuckin comedian in a thread about extremists of the left making ridiculous claims.

Does it change the fact that saying Republicans will make rape a pre-existing condition is just as ridiculous as Republicans saying Obama will come for our guns?

(11-05-2017 09:08 AM)John Derderian Wrote:  You seem unable to make your "both sides are equally bad" argument without grossly distorting the statements on one side.

Right. Saying rape will be legal is a gross distortion of saying rape will be a pre-existing condition. The latter is so much less horrible, and infinitely more believable. Especially if a Democrat says it, right? Dodgy

(11-05-2017 11:30 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Personally, I would like to see politicians and news people from both sides stick to reporting the facts. If only one side is going to do so, yes, I would prefer that it be the Democrats (because I'm a Democrat), but it would be far better if everyone could "play nice" and get back to discussing the issues in good faith, rather than just demonizing the other side. I know, not going to happen, but a man can dream.

Me, too, but we've had a few Presidential debates, now, and Trump wasn't the first to come across like he didn't know wtf he was talking about. Undecided Remember Herman Cain? Sarah Palin? Republicans have been pushing these yahoos into the races for a while, now. They didn't change the formula too much, this time around. And this one got elected, so expect more Republican candidates to act like a Trump in future elections, since it's proven to be capable of winning. I'm just hoping next time, the Democrats don't pick a candidate everyone feels is full of crap. I know I don't like anyone who throws out over-the-top, ridiculous, claims. So far I've been reasonably assured to see that from just one party. Undecided

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11-05-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(11-05-2017 12:05 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Right. Saying rape will be legal is a gross distortion of saying rape will be a pre-existing condition. The latter is so much less horrible, and infinitely more believable. Especially if a Democrat says it, right? Dodgy
Yes, considering rape to be *legal* is absolutely much worse than considering it a pre-existing condition for health coverage. It has nothing to do with who says it, Republican or Democrat or Martian. *Nobody* has made any claims about making rape legal, except you.
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11-05-2017, 12:34 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(10-05-2017 10:13 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Fact should matter, but look at the complete ass Brian37 makes of himself, and just look back at how many others gleefully pile on to defending a lie. Partisanship like this is ugly nomatter who does it.

I know. Undecided You'd think after highlighting how I misquoted a comedian known to make sweeping statements of all Republicans, ol' John would move on to address your O.P. But I figure I'll give him at least one more opportunity to zero in on the wrong thing to point out, and harp over Wink

(11-05-2017 09:18 AM)John Derderian Wrote:  I shouldn't have to do your homework for you, but okay. Transcripts of those shows are available on the HBO website. So far, I don't see anyplace where Maher claims that under Trump "brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again."

I'm relatively certain he didn't say those things, specifically. Blush
But I couldn't remember anymore of his fire-n-brimstone sounding rant, so I fit in a few things I thought up that sounded close to what I remembered hearing him say. That Trump equaled a Hitler. My apologies for disrespecting your hero, or something. Tongue

(11-05-2017 12:23 PM)John Derderian Wrote:  Yes, considering rape to be *legal* is absolutely much worse than considering it a pre-existing condition for health coverage. It has nothing to do with who says it, Republican or Democrat or Martian. *Nobody* has made any claims about making rape legal, except you.

Here's my original post, minus the one offending sentence.

(09-05-2017 12:06 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  "We're doing it, cuz they did it to us" sounds like an excuse to match atrocities with a wartime enemy. Undecided

I'm not commenting on the OP, cuz my lunch is about over and I ain't got time to read that shit Tongue but IF they're lying about what's in the bill to rile the emotions of voters...

Disregard this off-hand joke, John. Tongue
I don't watch Real Time w/ Bill Maher, much anymore, due to his ridiculous comments about Trump. Gonna become Hitler, brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again, blah blah blah. Bullshit.
Disregard this off-hand joke, John. Tongue

The verbiage may be refined a great deal, but it still stunk of the same bullshit as when my neighbor claimed Barack Saddam Bin Laden Obama was gonna come take all our guns, and sell our babies to Saudi Arabia! Dodgy

It has the potential to undermine Democratic credibility in the eyes of Republican voters as much as it undermined Republican's credibility for Democratic voters. "Look at all the crap they said was gonna happen that didn't! They don't know nuthin. Shoot, they'z prolly lyin! Let's go vote for 'nother Republican." *spittoon clang*

I'd be happy to keep the false bullshit spewing from Republican mouths, only. Undecided

Could you now respond to it, as if I never made that statement about the great infallible Maher? Wink

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