GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 4 Votes - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-05-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
Here; I'll make it easy.

................................

"We're doing it, cuz they did it to us" sounds like an excuse to match atrocities with a wartime enemy. Undecided

I'm not commenting on the OP, cuz my lunch is about over and I ain't got time to read that shit Tongue but IF they're lying about what's in the bill to rile the emotions of voters...

I don't watch Real Time w/ Bill Maher, much anymore, due to his ridiculous comments about Trump. Gonna become Hitler, brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again, blah blah blah. Bullshit.

The verbiage may be refined a great deal, but it still stunk of the same bullshit as when my neighbor claimed Barack Saddam Bin Laden Obama was gonna come take all our guns, and sell our babies to Saudi Arabia! Dodgy

It has the potential to undermine Democratic credibility in the eyes of Republican voters as much as it undermined Republican's credibility for Democratic voters. "Look at all the crap they said was gonna happen that didn't! They don't know nuthin. Shoot, they'z prolly lyin! Let's go vote for 'nother Republican." *spittoon clang*

I'd be happy to keep the false bullshit spewing from Republican mouths, only. Undecided

.................................

There we go. Shy Now go ahead and take for granted that everything, in every subsequent post, that had nothing to do with Democrats looking like idiots when they act like Republicans, is wrong & disregard it.

Now, hopefully, we can have a conversation over whether or not making ridiculous claims hurts the Democratic cause, and whether some people are willing to forgive such activity so long as it's perpetrated by their side of the political spectrum?

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-05-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
Also, @ John.

First.
I think our exchange is a prime example of how making false claims could hurt. When I may have made a false claim about Bill Maher, my point about lying for politics was lost on you. When Democrats make false claims, Republican (who were previously thinking of becoming Democrat) voters may zero in on the fact that they lied, and dismiss the fact that they are clearly the better candidate. Why would anyone vote for Trump? Because some didn't trust Hilary. Which is why we need the left to stay away from making obviously stupid claims!!!!

Second.
I still luv ya. Tongue Hug

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheGulegon's post
11-05-2017, 08:28 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(11-05-2017 12:34 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I'm relatively certain he didn't say those things, specifically. Blush
But I couldn't remember anymore of his fire-n-brimstone sounding rant, so I fit in a few things I thought up that sounded close to what I remembered hearing him say. That Trump equaled a Hitler. My apologies for disrespecting your hero, or something. Tongue
Nope, not my hero. I disagree with many things he says. But you made up absurd statements and repeatedly asserted he said them. More importantly, you used these over-the-top false statements to make the broad false equivalency argument that Democrats are equally absurd as Republicans. I was pointing out the flaws in your argument, not defending Maher.

(11-05-2017 12:34 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Here's my original post, minus the one offending sentence.

(09-05-2017 12:06 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  "We're doing it, cuz they did it to us" sounds like an excuse to match atrocities with a wartime enemy. Undecided

I'm not commenting on the OP, cuz my lunch is about over and I ain't got time to read that shit Tongue but IF they're lying about what's in the bill to rile the emotions of voters...

Disregard this off-hand joke, John. Tongue
I don't watch Real Time w/ Bill Maher, much anymore, due to his ridiculous comments about Trump. Gonna become Hitler, brown shirts will be roaming the streets, women will be forbidden from working outside the home, blacks will be made slaves again, blah blah blah. Bullshit.
Disregard this off-hand joke, John. Tongue
I'll disregard it now, but it was not an offhand joke. It was a repeated assertion that you tried to defend at length.

Quote:The verbiage may be refined a great deal, but it still stunk of the same bullshit as when my neighbor claimed Barack Saddam Bin Laden Obama was gonna come take all our guns, and sell our babies to Saudi Arabia! Dodgy
Really? The statement "Rape is now pre-existing condition for health coverage decisions" is comparable to "Obama is gonna sell our babies to Saudi Arabia?" Sorry, but this still strikes me as a big false equivalency. You seem to be working really hard to inflate much milder Democratic statements to the level of really asinine statements of people like...your neighbor.
(11-05-2017 12:34 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Could you now respond to it, as if I never made that statement about the great infallible Maher? Wink
Maher is far from infallible, but your implied ad hominem is noted.

I will continue to respond to your argument, as I have all along.

Yes, there is BS at some level on all sides. It is not all of the same magnitude. Yes, the rape-as-pre-existing-condition claim is false. It is not equivalent to "Obama's gonna sell our babies" or "Obama is really a Kenyan" or "Obama wiretapped Trump" or "Obama is planning to invade Texas" or many other truly absurd claims that have actually been made. You seem to recognize this, because instead of letting your argument rest on the rape claim, you invented much more absurd claims that were never made and used them instead.

edit: had some trouble with the multiply-nested quotes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes John Derderian's post
11-05-2017, 08:39 PM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(11-05-2017 01:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Also, @ John.

First.
I think our exchange is a prime example of how making false claims could hurt. When I may have made a false claim about Bill Maher, my point about lying for politics was lost on you. When Democrats make false claims, Republican (who were previously thinking of becoming Democrat) voters may zero in on the fact that they lied, and dismiss the fact that they are clearly the better candidate. Why would anyone vote for Trump? Because some didn't trust Hilary. Which is why we need the left to stay away from making obviously stupid claims!!!!
Your point wasn't lost on me. I understood it, but thought it was exaggerated beyond reason and argued dishonestly.

(11-05-2017 01:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Second.
I still luv ya. Tongue Hug
Another...exaggeration. Undecided
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2017, 03:44 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 03:49 AM by TheGulegon.)
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(11-05-2017 08:28 PM)John Derderian Wrote:  Really? The statement "Rape is now pre-existing condition for health coverage decisions" is comparable to "Obama is gonna sell our babies to Saudi Arabia?" Sorry, but this still strikes me as a big false equivalency.

Facepalm

Please find, and then quote, the post in which I stated that:
I, TheGulegon, personally feel that the statement, "Rape is now a pre-existing condition", is comparable to the statement, "Obama is gonna sell our babies to Saudi Arabia".

Of course I don't think that, silly. Rolleyes But the people living near me, who voted for Trump, this last election, come across like they aren't going to think all that critically over how big the idiotic claim is, so long as it's obviously false. Which is why I'd rather the Democrats not make a habit of it.

And I may have brought up my neighbor's ridiculous statement, that everyone here knows is just ignorant propaganda, in order to shame any Democrats Angel who actually believed that rape was ever going be allowed onto any pre-existing conditions list.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(12-05-2017 03:44 AM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Please find, and then quote, the post in which I stated that:
I, TheGulegon, personally feel that the statement, "Rape is now a pre-existing condition", is comparable to the statement, "Obama is gonna sell our babies to Saudi Arabia".

Of course I don't think that, silly. Rolleyes But the people living near me, who voted for Trump, this last election, come across like they aren't going to think all that critically over how big the idiotic claim is, so long as it's obviously false. Which is why I'd rather the Democrats not make a habit of it.

And I may have brought up my neighbor's ridiculous statement, that everyone here knows is just ignorant propaganda, in order to shame any Democrats Angel who actually believed that rape was ever going be allowed onto any pre-existing conditions list.

Your repeated argument is that the two sides lie or exaggerate *to an equal extent*. You've noted Republican statements like "Obama's gonna take all our guns" and "sell our babies," but the *only* example of Democratic exaggeration you've given to support this argument is the pre-existing condition one. Together these imply that, yes, you consider these to be "exaggerations" of comparable magnitude. You may not *think* Rolleyes that, but that's the argument you've made.

If you want Democratic politicians to be perfect and to never lie or exaggerate, I'd certainly agree with that, but we both know that will never happen in politics. I would like to see the Democrats be better in a lot of ways. But balancing this one instance on the Democratic side (or a few more you can could probably come up with) against a campaign of propaganda and a president who, according to Politifact, lies 75% of the time, has exactly the opposite effect, I think. Pretending both sides lie equally I think would encourage Democrats to lie more, until they actually *are* comparable to Republicans; they'll be accused of it anyway. It also makes it less likely that Republicans and Trump pay any price for lying or corruption, because they can always say "The Democrats are just as bad."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes John Derderian's post
12-05-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
I'm unfamiliar with anyone actually making the argument that rape by itself will be a pre-existing condition. The argument I have seen is that many of the symptoms associated with being a rape victim (e.g. PTSD) can be enough for companies to deny care to rape victims by declaring the results of the rape a "pre-existing condition". No company would be so insane as to declare rape itself a PEC, but the effect of denying coverage to people based on the effects of rape is to make anyone who's not okay after being raped into a lawfully-deniable category.

Here is what the Democratic Congresswoman, Judy Chu, actually said. Chu said the legislation "would once again allow being a rape or domestic violence victim to be a pre-existing condition".

She did not specify that she was referring to the effects of being a rape or domestic abuse victim, rather than simply being denied because the company somehow learned you were a rape or domestic abuse victim; I suppose she figured people would be bright and honest enough to figure that one out on their own.

The analysis from PolitiFact of Wisconsin put it thus:

"The GOP bill does not single out any specific medical event or diagnosis as a pre-existing condition.

Conditions stemming from a sexual assault or domestic violence, such as post-traumatic stress disorder or certain sexually transmitted diseases, could be judged to be a pre-existing condition.

States would have the option to allow insurers to charge higher prices to people with an existing condition, possibly making coverage unaffordable."


http://www.politifact.com/california/sta...l-calif-c/

So before you go calling it a "lie of the Left", I suggest you consider whether there's a real difference between being denied coverage (or paying through the teeth for coverage) because you're a rape victim with issues stemming from that rape, or the same happening because the company finds out "she is a rape victim". If the latter is unacceptable, why do you try to excuse the former?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
12-05-2017, 10:22 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
Oh yes, and while we're talking about lies from one side of the political spectrum, how about the endless barrage of lies being told by the GOP in order to justify giving these powers back to the insurance companies (who have lobbied them to the tune of literally hundreds of millions of dollars per year for the last decade), such as the outright misrepresentations of how much Canadians pay for their healthcare system, how Canadians feel about their system, and the "massive" waiting lists that only exist for non-critical or elective procedures (and which turn out to be the same if you're in the USA and not paying big money). Or denying that people die from lack of coverage/care, in this country? Or even claiming that "Obama"care, the ACA, is a Democratic Party "radical" idea even though it was crafted by Republicans 30 years ago, pushed/passed initially by a Republican governor in his state, and was the subject of a Heritage Foundation policy paper when it was first conceived?

The GOP lies list is nearly endless. But no, let's just go batshit crazy because a congresswoman fails to make the distinction between being denied for being a rape victim and being denied for the effects of being a rape victim. That'll show those damned libs! Rolleyes

People like you make me sick. Aw, crap, now I can't get health coverage!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
12-05-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(12-05-2017 10:22 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The GOP lies list is nearly endless. But no, let's just go batshit crazy because a congresswoman fails to make the distinction between being denied for being a rape victim and being denied for the effects of being a rape victim.
Beautiful. This is a much clearer expression of the point I've tried to make about the false equivalency. Thank you, RS76.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2017, 11:52 AM
RE: GOP Bill Makes Rape A Pre-existing Condition--And Other Lies By The Left
(12-05-2017 08:38 AM)John Derderian Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 03:44 AM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Please find, and then quote, the post in which I stated that:
I, TheGulegon, personally feel that the statement, "Rape is now a pre-existing condition", is comparable to the statement, "Obama is gonna sell our babies to Saudi Arabia".

Of course I don't think that, silly. Rolleyes But the people living near me, who voted for Trump, this last election, come across like they aren't going to think all that critically over how big the idiotic claim is, so long as it's obviously false. Which is why I'd rather the Democrats not make a habit of it.

And I may have brought up my neighbor's ridiculous statement, that everyone here knows is just ignorant propaganda, in order to shame any Democrats Angel who actually believed that rape was ever going be allowed onto any pre-existing conditions list.

Your repeated argument is that the two sides lie or exaggerate *to an equal extent*. You've noted Republican statements like "Obama's gonna take all our guns" and "sell our babies," but the *only* example of Democratic exaggeration you've given to support this argument is the pre-existing condition one. Together these imply that, yes, you consider these to be "exaggerations" of comparable magnitude. You may not *think* Rolleyes that, but that's the argument you've made.

If you want Democratic politicians to be perfect and to never lie or exaggerate, I'd certainly agree with that, but we both know that will never happen in politics. I would like to see the Democrats be better in a lot of ways. But balancing this one instance on the Democratic side (or a few more you can could probably come up with) against a campaign of propaganda and a president who, according to Politifact, lies 75% of the time, has exactly the opposite effect, I think. Pretending both sides lie equally I think would encourage Democrats to lie more, until they actually *are* comparable to Republicans; they'll be accused of it anyway. It also makes it less likely that Republicans and Trump pay any price for lying or corruption, because they can always say "The Democrats are just as bad."

It isn't about ME, dude, DAYUM! This is to you, too, Rocket, I love ya, but gawdam.
You shouldn't worry about what I think; I voted for Hilary. You should be worried about all those people who refused to vote for her.

I never said Democratic lies are equal to Repubs, but it doesn't fucking matter anymore that Repubs have spewed utter horseshit for years to pile up into tons and tons more than Dems... it didn't stop Trump from being elected, did it?

And it can be argued that at least one of the reasons that he won was the large number of people who refused to vote for Hilary because they thought she was a lying bitch. Idk where that shit came from, but I've heard it more than once. Rocket, you're in Missouri, you can't tell me you haven't heard that one.

All I give a fuck about is making sure another Trump doesn't get into the White House, AGAIN, before his kind goes extinct. It doesn't matter what I think! It doesn't matter what you, or Rocket think. We're already set to vote right. Left, I mean. I think. Democratic; shit I better spell it right... or left... fuck Hobo You know what I mean, we're in the correct corner. It's what THEY think we should be worried about considering the outcome of the last election.

WE know Repubs are full of a ton of shit, compared to only the few mildly smelly pounds up in them Dems, but not everyone is as discerning a voter as we are when it comes time to pick the lesser of 2 evils!

Now all this above may be complete gibberish. Maybe it's just a pipe dream. Maybe I'm the dumbest motherfucker to ever breath.

But does it not make at least a tiny bit of sense, after people refused to vote for Hilary over trust issues, in droves, to berate stupid statements made by the party we'd like to win next time? I'd like to see all those voters come back to at least voting against lesser apes for President! I'm not convinced defending a lie made by Democrats, simply because it's slightly milder than Republican grade bullshit, is the best way to bring back over to our side, all the people who voted for their conscious. Facepalm

I ain't yellin at ya cuz I don't like ya. Frustrated iz all.
Everything I've been saying has required you to take on the perspective of either
A) A Republican voter who has been thinking of trying to listen to some Democrats to see if they make any better sense.
or
B) Someone who voted for whoever the fuck ran as an independent, this last election.

How does making a statement nearly as stupid as something Sarah Palin would say
then defending it because it's not quite as ridiculous as something Sarah Palin would say
then reminding everyone that the other side's done it more than us *sticks tongue out* mmnnuhh
convince those folks to vote alongside us? I'm just not seeing it.

We can't keep a politician from lying Rolleyes but I'd like to keep the ones I want voted for from making ridiculous claims, regardless whether it's because they're actually absent minded, or simply couldn't be bothered to even charge one of their aids to read the fucking bill for them.

As ever, I may be wrong. Been there, done that. Undecided
Rant over. Hobo
Fuck, I'm taking a nap. Sleepy

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: