Gathering perspectives: knowledge
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-04-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(09-04-2014 07:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Dont' make no nevermind to GirlyMan. GirlyMan don't give a shit.
Hello GirlyMan!

This time I don't see, I don't know what you mean. But it's good that you don't take it seriously :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(09-04-2014 08:06 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  When I say "I know", it means "I agree".
(09-04-2014 08:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  me too, I agree.
(09-04-2014 11:08 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  'I understand' or 'I can relate'.
Very interesting, thank you all.

Dom, evenheathen, I presume that your intransitive use of the verb would be similar to LadyJane's "I can relate", wouldn't it? What about the transitive use, do you ever say that you know something? Assuming you do, would it also mean that you understand whatever notion is being considered?

And what about the noun "knowledge"? I suppose you might view it as a synonym for "understanding", rather than "agreement", is that the case? Or maybe not? Do you think there can be knowledge without understanding? I am not suggesting this applies to you, of course, but I sometimes find people who seem able to know many long sacred verses, yet they don't seem able to know what those verses mean. Would you say that would be a case of knowing without understanding? Knowing by heart, but not by brain.

Very interesting, although I now wonder what each of you understands by "understanding" :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(11-04-2014 07:37 PM)living thing Wrote:  What about the transitive use, do you ever say that you know something? Assuming you do, would it also mean that you understand whatever notion is being considered?

It all depends on the context in which the question is being asked, but for the most part, yes.

(11-04-2014 07:37 PM)living thing Wrote:  Do you think there can be knowledge without understanding?

Nope.

(11-04-2014 07:37 PM)living thing Wrote:  Would you say that would be a case of knowing without understanding? Knowing by heart, but not by brain.

I would say that is memorization, not understanding. Again, the context of the use of the word "know" is important.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 08:02 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
The way you described the usage in the OP, it was used as a colloquialism, not in it's actual meaning.

There is a huge difference.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
11-04-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(11-04-2014 07:37 PM)living thing Wrote:  ...
And what about the noun "knowledge"? I suppose you might view it as a synonym for "understanding", rather than "agreement", is that the case?
Do you think there can be knowledge without understanding?
...

No. There must be some understanding but this can be partial of full or some degree thereof.

There are two factors at play that distinguish knowledge from information:
1. Understanding
2. Context

Or more specifically:
The Data-to-Information-to-Knowledge-to-Wisdom (DIKW) structure.

Data is a set of discrete facts.

Information comes from providing context to data.

Knowledge is composed of the tacit experiences, ideas, insights, values and judgements of individuals. People gain knowledge both from their own and from their peers’ expertise, as well as from the analysis of information (and data). Through the synthesis of these elements, new knowledge is created.
Knowledge is dynamic and context-based. Knowledge puts information into an ‘ease of use’ form, which can facilitate decision-making.

Wisdom makes use of knowledge to create value through correct and well-informed decisions. Wisdom involves having the application and contextual awareness to provide strong common-sense judgement.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 08:17 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(09-04-2014 11:05 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Knowing is a slippery notion:
(...)
About all that can be known for sure is that the more we know the more we realize how much more we don't know.
Hello Airportkid, thanks.

Indeed, knowing is a slippery notion, that is why I hope you all don't mind me asking for your perspectives. I know I can resort to dictionaries, but I like learning other views directly, not just as compiled by a dictionary.

I think I may understand the concept that you mention and I will refer to as "multiplicative unknowledge". Complex ideas generally convey so many detailed notions within them, that almost every complex new idea that arrives to our brains raises our awareness of all those detailed notions that we don't know. The more we know, the more we realise that we don't know. Besides, our environment is constantly changing, so what we know is often obsolete and, in practice, irrelevant. There always seem to be new notions to be known, and whenever we finally stop learning it is not because we know every notion, but because we are dead.

Thank you, Airportkid, although I'm still not quite sure of what knowledge means in your view.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(11-04-2014 07:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  It all depends on the context in which the question is being asked, but for the most part, yes.
I think you are probably right; many of the implications conveyed by information seem completely dependent on the context in which it appears.

(11-04-2014 07:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(11-04-2014 07:37 PM)living thing Wrote:  Do you think there can be knowledge without understanding?
Nope.
Ok.

(11-04-2014 07:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I would say that is memorization, not understanding. Again, the context of the use of the word "know" is important.
I agree. Knowing [how words sound] is not the same as knowing [what words mean].

Thank you, evenheathen, that was very helpful.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(11-04-2014 08:02 PM)Dom Wrote:  The way you described the usage in the OP, it was used as a colloquialism, not in it's actual meaning.

There is a huge difference.
Yes, I realised when I read your responses, sorry about that.

But I haven't even tried to suggest that you have given me a mistaken answer, I have simply added a few more questions. Would you like to add any other answers? Every perspective is welcome.

Thanks Dom, have fun!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 09:55 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
Hello DLJ, how are you?

Let me see if I have understood the progression correctly. Let us consider two discrete “facts” (not factual at all, because I am making them up): “Bob is 30 years old”, “Billy is 5 years old”. These would be data, right?

I can now transform them into information by providing them a context. For conveniency, I will use each as the other one’s context: “Billy is younger than Bob”. Would that correct?

Once that abstract notion arrives to and is understood by a brain, we can consider it knowledge: “I have learned that Billy is younger than Bob”. Is that what you’re suggesting?

Combining that knowledge with other knowledge, one’s brain can display wisdom by producing a useful notion: “Why is Billy driving this car? I’d find it safer if it were Bob”. Yeah, I’d find it safer too.

Is that, more or less, what your description means? If it is, I guess there is one factor distinguishing knowledge from information (understanding), and there are two factors (understanding and context) distinguishing data from knowledge, since data + context seems to be information, and information + understanding seems to be knowledge.

Are these terms circumscribed to our human minds, or can they be applied to other terrestrial non-human living beings? Is the Venus flytrap wise when it closes its leaves upon unsupecting insects?

Thanks for your contribution. Enjoy your weekend!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Gathering perspectives: knowledge
(09-04-2014 08:06 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  When I say "I know", it means "I agree".

If I agree I say, "I know, right!?!" Tongue

[Image: HU7wekj.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Losty's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: