Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
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18-06-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
No swimming is a sign that covers all kinds of things. Alligators, crocodiles, sharks, under currents, harmful algae growth and harmful bacteria in the water are some that come to mind.

No swimming means that the water is not safe.

Stay the fuck away from it or forever hold your peace.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-06-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 01:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(18-06-2016 12:51 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm going to rant on many observations I've made in my 22 years of parenting.

You don't let your toddler run across a busy parking lot where cars are backing out and pulling into spaces.

You don't let your kids run around restaurants. Servers are carrying often hot food and can't see what's going on below their field of vision well.

Grocery stores aren't playgrounds either.

If you see a sign that says keep off the grass, do you keep your toddler off it? Or do you just let them run all over it?

If you see yellow tape covering a swing set at a park do you just let your child swing anyway because they really must swing?

When my kids learned to ride a bike, they wore a helmet, because it's stupid not to make them do that. If they refused to wear it, I didn't let them ride.

When they learned to ride skateboards they wore a helmet then too, also knee and elbow pads.

When we drove from California to our new home here and when my youngest refused to get into the van and sit in his car seat, we didn't move until he got over it and was safe.

Likewise when my older son screamed from Lake Tahoe to San Francisco, I wouldn't let my mother in law "just pick him up and hold him" while the car was moving. We were stuck in heavy traffic on the freeway and couldn't just pull over.

My husband wouldn't let the boys jump on the bed -- which I didn't think was a big deal until he showed me X-rays of kids with skull fractures and broken collarbones.

When we took the boys to beach and saw signs that read "beach closed" we didn't just ignore it. Some did. We didn't and later we heard on the news that shit ton of jelly fish were on the beach and in the water, because of a recent storm. Many people learned that jelly fish can sting after they're dead.

When we were in crowded places, and the kids were small, they would hold our hands -- it was a rule. There were no exceptions to it.

They weren't allowed to just run around on their own, unless it was safe to do it -- like a park, but we also watched them.

I also made sure I had all the bath stuff together before the kid was in the water and I didn't answer the phone.

if I see a sign that says no swimming I wouldn't let my kid into the water -- or probably near it. And if it became too much, we'd just go to the pool.

Oh and while I'm on the subject of pools, big rule for us, no running and no glass.

I've seen too many kids face plant while running around pools.

I don't take chances when it comes to safety.

I don't care if they missed out on the experience of running by a pool or a parking lot. It's one they can do without.

When my older son got his drivers license and again after he turned 21, we instilled into him that a cab ride or phone call is always less expensive than trying to drive drunk. Even if over-night and the car gets towed. It's still cheaper than a having to hire a lawyer or contacting a funeral home.

Have I made a mistake where I just felt lucky after? Yes, once my son threw his plush ducky down the heater vent and nearly starred a fire, because I was playing a game on the computer (and cooking dinner) in the other room. I sincerely thought he was asleep. But given the way he was....I should have known better.

So yeah, I've held a friend's hand too many times while waiting to hear if someone they loved would live and I've attended far too many funerals to not take what should be basic safety seriously.

I'm sorry Moms, but that's all irrelevant bullshit. The idea that they didn't do these things or take safety seriously is completely contradicted by the facts. A 2 year old boy was walking in ankle deep water in a closed off resort while holding his father's hand. The idea that because there was a "no swimming" sign they violated some rule of safety where it was reasonable to assume he was in danger of being eaten by a fucking alligator is preposterous. This ever growing societal need to sit in judgment of people from our end of the ethernet connection is really disturbing. These people are deserving of empathy, not judgment.

Muffs - there was no sign saying anything about alligators. Ever been to Disney? They shut the thing off from the world. I've been to the Grand Floridian. It's it's own world. I can easily see how a tourist would fail to comprehend that a man made beach around a manmade lagoon could be a home to alligators. Especially if they are renting canoes to go glide across that water.

We all want to pretend that these tragedies can never happen to us and that if we were there we could have avoided it all. That's simply not true, though. These people were not unique. One other parent has already posted pictures of their kid walking in the same lagoon an hour before it happened. From what I gather, this was a common thing. Again, "swimming" and "walking in ankle deep water" are not the same thing".

A common thing...people entering a body of water where there is a no swimming sign. One family or one thousand families...it doesn't change the message of the sign. Stay out of the water.

Your high horse is fascinating.

Have you ever watched a nature documentary where a gator suddenly appears onto the shore when an animal has disturbed the calm of the water? That's one of the ways they hunt. Kind of like a little kid walking in the shallow edge of the water.

I don't think those parents fed their kid to the alligator but I do think heeding the sign would have kept this from happening. Doesn't matter that dozens upon dozens of other people chose to ignore the sign and didn't get hurt. Doesn't fucking matter.

A no swimming sign means don't go in the water.

Here is my judgement of the parents...that sign was there for your protection and the protection of your offspring...you decided that the sign didn't mean you. You made a decision...a really bad decision.

But let's all remember the kids who later in life don't heed signs...they have to learn to obey signs and warnings from someone.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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18-06-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 01:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  We all want to pretend that these tragedies can never happen to us and that if we were there we could have avoided it all. That's simply not true, though. These people were not unique. One other parent has already posted pictures of their kid walking in the same lagoon an hour before it happened. From what I gather, this was a common thing. Again, "swimming" and "walking in ankle deep water" are not the same thing".

I honestly don't care how many dumb people come out of the woodwork and post pictures of their kids playing in the water.

The sign was there for a reason. Parents disregarded it. Period. Since when is "well they did it" a valid excuse?

When they closed ocean beach because of jellyfish...the sign just said "beach closed." People still ignored it and many were stung.

People leave their pets or even babies in cars on cloudy days thinking they'll only be a minute. I suppose that's just a tragedy and they just made a "mistake" too -- oh that's right they're not responsible because no one has ever personally warned them that it's not good idea. And the parking lot didn't include a very specific sign explaining precisely why it's bad.

These things aren't like leaving the coffee cup on the top of the car and driving away.

There are things that aren't in my control, like other drivers on the road, weather or wildlife. But I'm not about disregard stated warnings.

I always assume they're there for a reason and that reason could be anything. Even if the water looks nice and clean and there are hundreds of other people ignoring the signs.

If you're on the road driving and you turn onto a street that says road closed in an unfamiliar neighborhood, do you just keep going or do you turn around? You don't know why the road the closed specifically...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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18-06-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 02:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  A common thing...people entering a body of water where there is a no swimming sign. One family or one thousand families...it doesn't change the message of the sign. Stay out of the water.

Your high horse is fascinating.

Have you ever watched a nature documentary where a gator suddenly appears onto the shore when an animal has disturbed the calm of the water? That's one of the ways they hunt. Kind of like a little kid walking in the shallow edge of the water.

I don't think those parents fed their kid to the alligator but I do think heeding the sign would have kept this from happening. Doesn't matter that dozens upon dozens of other people chose to ignore the sign and didn't get hurt. Doesn't fucking matter.

A no swimming sign means don't go in the water.

Here is my judgement of the parents...that sign was there for your protection and the protection of your offspring...you decided that the sign didn't mean you. You made a decision...a really bad decision.

But let's all remember the kids who later in life don't heed signs...they have to learn to obey signs and warnings from someone.

I'm really trying not to get into an angry pissing contest with people I generally like and respect, and I was going to walk away from this. But, I really have to respond to this post.

First, there is a point here that keeps getting missed so I want to make it absolutely clear:

THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT FUCKING KNOW THERE WERE FUCKING ALLIGATORS!

Talking about a documentary about how they hunt is ridiculous. No sane person would go anywhere near the water if they knew there was a giant killer reptile in the vicinity. And, according to other guest at the Grand Floridian at the same time, they had no idea either. Alligators are fast. Simply getting your toes wet is not where the danger starts and ends. Getting anywhere near the water, whether you go in or not, puts you at risk. They hide, they blend in, they move silently, and they kill quickly. The "well, they ignored a fucking no swimming sign" is a ridiculous argument.

Second: MY high horse is fascinating? I'm not judging anyone. You, however, are sitting over a 1,000 miles away and inventing facts and other details for the sole purpose of sitting in judgment of these people. They watched their son get snapped by a fucking alligator. How dare you sit, with no facts and the safety of anonymity, and judge them.

Are you willing to subject yourself to the same scrutiny? Are your children all so perfect that no one can sit and question your decisions, your actions and the lives your children lead? No issues with drugs or booze? Nothing that a mom who's kids didn't have those issues can look at and say, with the same certainty that you are using here, "well, my kids would NEVER abuse drugs/drink too much/get in a bad marriage with a loser/fill in the blank". Are you so confident in you sagacity, foresight and wisdom that you're comfortable withstanding that same level of scrutiny and judgment?

I serious doubt that you are. And, for the record, neither am I. But, I'm not the one on the high horse sitting in judgment and casting blame.

Finally, "no swimming" doesn't mean "Danger, there are alligators here". It means we don't want you going into the water for what could be any variety of reasons. It could be to avoid destroying the habitat. It could be for the protection of wildlife in the water. It could be because of the canoes. It could be because they don't have life guards. It's not reasonable to assume that it's because there giant fucking predator reptiles hanging on the shore line that could grab your 2 year old and kill him in front of you. Because, if that was the motivation, it would spell out the risk of fucking alligators like it does everywhere else in Florida.

Ok, I'm done. I'm really not trying to destroy relationships over this and that is my last word.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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18-06-2016, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 06:57 PM by Anjele.)
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 03:41 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(18-06-2016 02:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  A common thing...people entering a body of water where there is a no swimming sign. One family or one thousand families...it doesn't change the message of the sign. Stay out of the water.

Your high horse is fascinating.

Have you ever watched a nature documentary where a gator suddenly appears onto the shore when an animal has disturbed the calm of the water? That's one of the ways they hunt. Kind of like a little kid walking in the shallow edge of the water.

I don't think those parents fed their kid to the alligator but I do think heeding the sign would have kept this from happening. Doesn't matter that dozens upon dozens of other people chose to ignore the sign and didn't get hurt. Doesn't fucking matter.

A no swimming sign means don't go in the water.

Here is my judgement of the parents...that sign was there for your protection and the protection of your offspring...you decided that the sign didn't mean you. You made a decision...a really bad decision.

But let's all remember the kids who later in life don't heed signs...they have to learn to obey signs and warnings from someone.

I'm really trying not to get into an angry pissing contest with people I generally like and respect, and I was going to walk away from this. But, I really have to respond to this post.

First, there is a point here that keeps getting missed so I want to make it absolutely clear:

THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT FUCKING KNOW THERE WERE FUCKING ALLIGATORS!

Talking about a documentary about how they hunt is ridiculous. No sane person would go anywhere near the water if they knew there was a giant killer reptile in the vicinity. And, according to other guest at the Grand Floridian at the same time, they had no idea either. Alligators are fast. Simply getting your toes wet is not where the danger starts and ends. Getting anywhere near the water, whether you go in or not, puts you at risk. They hide, they blend in, they move silently, and they kill quickly. The "well, they ignored a fucking no swimming sign" is a ridiculous argument.

Second: MY high horse is fascinating? I'm not judging anyone. You, however, are sitting over a 1,000 miles away and inventing facts and other details for the sole purpose of sitting in judgment of these people. They watched their son get snapped by a fucking alligator. How dare you sit, with no facts and the safety of anonymity, and judge them.

Are you willing to subject yourself to the same scrutiny? Are your children all so perfect that no one can sit and question your decisions, your actions and the lives your children lead? No issues with drugs or booze? Nothing that a mom who's kids didn't have those issues can look at and say, with the same certainty that you are using here, "well, my kids would NEVER abuse drugs/drink too much/get in a bad marriage with a loser/fill in the blank". Are you so confident in you sagacity, foresight and wisdom that you're comfortable withstanding that same level of scrutiny and judgment?

I serious doubt that you are. And, for the record, neither am I. But, I'm not the one on the high horse sitting in judgment and casting blame.

Finally, "no swimming" doesn't mean "Danger, there are alligators here". It means we don't want you going into the water for what could be any variety of reasons. It could be to avoid destroying the habitat. It could be for the protection of wildlife in the water. It could be because of the canoes. It could be because they don't have life guards. It's not reasonable to assume that it's because there giant fucking predator reptiles hanging on the shore line that could grab your 2 year old and kill him in front of you. Because, if that was the motivation, it would spell out the risk of fucking alligators like it does everywhere else in Florida.

Ok, I'm done. I'm really not trying to destroy relationships over this and that is my last word.

Here BNW...here it is...my middle child struggles mightily with addictions.

Very recently I have gone through this - there is a possibility that she is manufacturing and selling meth. And she has two young children.

I have worried for years that she is going to end up dead like her father.

So no...my parenting wasn't perfect. But then she is also an adult who is making her own decisions.

Don't fucking come at me that I think my parenting is perfect. Just don't go there.

But no swimming means stay the fuck out the water....you don't need to know the God damned reason for the sign you need to read it and heed it.

I am not blaming the parents for anything other than making a very bad decision to disregard a warning sign.

And, I am done too.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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19-06-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 03:41 PM)BnW Wrote:  [...] Finally, "no swimming" doesn't mean "Danger, there are alligators here". It means we don't want you going into the water for what could be any variety of reasons...

Exactly. And as far as I know, alligators are endemic in Florida are they not? There's reported to be more than 1.3 million of them in FL's waters, and they can be found in rivers, marshes, wetlands, swamps, lakes, canals and even in backyard swimming pools.

Surely on that basis alone, any parents would be wary of letting their kids swim and/or paddle in any body of water anywhere in FL? More so if there's a "No Swimming" sign there? And although the Seven Seas lagoon is man-made, it's ultimately fed by a natural waterway—Bonnet Creek—which is known to support numerous alligators.

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19-06-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(18-06-2016 03:41 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(18-06-2016 02:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  A common thing...people entering a body of water where there is a no swimming sign. One family or one thousand families...it doesn't change the message of the sign. Stay out of the water.

Your high horse is fascinating.

Have you ever watched a nature documentary where a gator suddenly appears onto the shore when an animal has disturbed the calm of the water? That's one of the ways they hunt. Kind of like a little kid walking in the shallow edge of the water.

I don't think those parents fed their kid to the alligator but I do think heeding the sign would have kept this from happening. Doesn't matter that dozens upon dozens of other people chose to ignore the sign and didn't get hurt. Doesn't fucking matter.

A no swimming sign means don't go in the water.

Here is my judgement of the parents...that sign was there for your protection and the protection of your offspring...you decided that the sign didn't mean you. You made a decision...a really bad decision.

But let's all remember the kids who later in life don't heed signs...they have to learn to obey signs and warnings from someone.

I'm really trying not to get into an angry pissing contest with people I generally like and respect, and I was going to walk away from this. But, I really have to respond to this post.

First, there is a point here that keeps getting missed so I want to make it absolutely clear:

THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ALLIGATORS
THE PARENTS DID NOT FUCKING KNOW THERE WERE FUCKING ALLIGATORS!

Talking about a documentary about how they hunt is ridiculous. No sane person would go anywhere near the water if they knew there was a giant killer reptile in the vicinity. And, according to other guest at the Grand Floridian at the same time, they had no idea either. Alligators are fast. Simply getting your toes wet is not where the danger starts and ends. Getting anywhere near the water, whether you go in or not, puts you at risk. They hide, they blend in, they move silently, and they kill quickly. The "well, they ignored a fucking no swimming sign" is a ridiculous argument.

Second: MY high horse is fascinating? I'm not judging anyone. You, however, are sitting over a 1,000 miles away and inventing facts and other details for the sole purpose of sitting in judgment of these people. They watched their son get snapped by a fucking alligator. How dare you sit, with no facts and the safety of anonymity, and judge them.

Are you willing to subject yourself to the same scrutiny? Are your children all so perfect that no one can sit and question your decisions, your actions and the lives your children lead? No issues with drugs or booze? Nothing that a mom who's kids didn't have those issues can look at and say, with the same certainty that you are using here, "well, my kids would NEVER abuse drugs/drink too much/get in a bad marriage with a loser/fill in the blank". Are you so confident in you sagacity, foresight and wisdom that you're comfortable withstanding that same level of scrutiny and judgment?

I serious doubt that you are. And, for the record, neither am I. But, I'm not the one on the high horse sitting in judgment and casting blame.

Finally, "no swimming" doesn't mean "Danger, there are alligators here". It means we don't want you going into the water for what could be any variety of reasons. It could be to avoid destroying the habitat. It could be for the protection of wildlife in the water. It could be because of the canoes. It could be because they don't have life guards. It's not reasonable to assume that it's because there giant fucking predator reptiles hanging on the shore line that could grab your 2 year old and kill him in front of you. Because, if that was the motivation, it would spell out the risk of fucking alligators like it does everywhere else in Florida.

Ok, I'm done. I'm really not trying to destroy relationships over this and that is my last word.

But early in this thread there was shown a sign that had a pic of a reptile on it. Coulda been a gator, coulda been a croc, don't know and I couldn't even care. Keep the little kid out of the water unless you are tired of having him around!
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19-06-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
(19-06-2016 03:19 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(18-06-2016 03:41 PM)BnW Wrote:  [...] Finally, "no swimming" doesn't mean "Danger, there are alligators here". It means we don't want you going into the water for what could be any variety of reasons...

Exactly. And as far as I know, alligators are endemic in Florida are they not? There's reported to be more than 1.3 million of them in FL's waters, and they can be found in rivers, marshes, wetlands, swamps, lakes, canals and even in backyard swimming pools.

Surely on that basis alone, any parents would be wary of letting their kids swim and/or paddle in any body of water anywhere in FL? More so if there's a "No Swimming" sign there? And although the Seven Seas lagoon is man-made, it's ultimately fed by a natural waterway—Bonnet Creek—which is known to support numerous alligators.

I once had a girl friend who called me at 11:30 at night because she had gone out to the condo's pool and saw a gator in it. No sipping wine in the shallow end of the pool for her at midnight after that. She just wanted me to see it. Little guy not more than 4 ft long.
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19-06-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
I imagine that child's dad is having the next to his worst day ever, today. I'm sorry for him, for the mom and family. I'm sorry for the child and sorry that for a few moments of distraction of enjoying that idyllic lake while splashing with your child at Disney World, something they may have waited all their lives to go do, that it turned into tragedy. Parents make mistakes and often times children unfortunately pay for that mistake first.

It's pointless to argue over something that isn't your responsibility. Please, let's not go there.

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24-06-2016, 06:03 AM
RE: Gator snatches two year old from Disney Lagoon
Story about Disney's previous issues with alligators there. There are some vid clips.

Never pays to ignore nature.

http://the-daily.buzz/disney-alligator-s...ountain/2/




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