Gay Christians... What?
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31-10-2010, 07:30 PM
 
RE: Gay Christians... What?
I know a lot of gay christians, including a couple pastors. Understanding it is no more difficult than understanding why heterosexual christians don't murder their children because they choose to be a member of another religion. (see Deut...) Christians regularly cherry pick the Bible for what they want to believe, leaving out inconvenient admonishments like stoning adulters, usury, etc. I don't see how gays would be exempt from this kind of editing.
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01-11-2010, 02:38 AM
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Good point. I also don't understand cherry picking. I don't understand why people chose to believe instead of learning something. I know that they do, I just don't understand why. I like learning and knowing. That is why I can never return to theism.
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01-11-2010, 06:47 AM
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Well if your belief is a security blanket (which it is for a lot of people) I think it's very natural to try to make that blanket fit no matter what if you still have a fear of eternal torture.

Most people hold on to religion so they don't have to face the fear of being a bad person or have to deal with all the accusations people throw at them. I don't think most people realize their fears of what all these religions promise on them is unfounded.

People don't understand logic or that they are not required to disprove someone else. The other person making the claim is the one to present the proof.

That's why I personally think the higher the education the more likely to drop the belief in a higher power someone is. They begin to understand how to think and see the value in truth.
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02-11-2010, 12:47 PM
 
RE: Gay Christians... What?
As a gay christian who was raised southern baptist.... *yea let that sink in*
(And no i am not out to my parents but yes out to friends and very few family)
I have found it a hard time with my faith and my sexuality. I have done the whole trying to be straight thing because the bible states its a sin, *Even thou people who eat shell fish and cut there hair like Leviticus says not to and groups those sins right with homosexuality* I have found out one fact.... I am gay. My only thought to this is God made me this way for a reason, i don't know what that reason is but I highly doubt that God really has that big a deal with me being gay. In the bible it states "for all have sin and fallen short of the glory of God" so if i get this right, and being raised in church I have been told that 1 sin is enough to keep you out of heaven and "All sin is equal in the eyes of God" So if i try to use logic (which i know a lot of church members think that is a bad thing)
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
sin = hell, there for No matter what the sin is it is all equal because the final conclusion from sinning is hell. so Murder = hell, Gay = hell, Lies = hell, Stealing a candy bar when your 3 =hell.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that who so ever believes in him shall be saved" "if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord then you shall be saved"
So God sent Jesus to die on the cross, and because of that he forgives all sin. *unless i missed the Astrix that had a clause in what Jesus death didn't cover*
so.... based on Sin = hell and Jesus = heaven
All(Sin) + Jesus = Heaven... So using that math Me + Gay =hell But Me(Gay) + Jesus = heaven...

Maybe I am over simplifying it but using logic plus the bible that is what i come across...

Now why would anyone subject themselves into a group that is known for dragging my fellow gay people behind trucks, killing them, being so full of hate that while holding a bible would strap a gay kid down on the sidewalk at 3pm after school while he is walking home, and carve the word FAG across his chest with a knife just so the kid would run home and have to hide that from his parents cause he was afraid to let them find out. I really have a hard time explaining it.

The majority of the people are stupid, and the stupid people who cant think for themselves (who scare easy) have a primal nature to see anything different or maybe something they do not understand as a threat. In this they try to create a moral way to find a reason to hate, and or find a way to exterminate the threat from them. So those that have a bible can clutch it and say oh yea it says something about things i do not fully understand and says its bad so lets get rid of all of it in the name of GOD! Let us not try to understand it let us just try to push it away. So then they have no obligation to reason, no obligation to understand, or no obligation to treat a fellow man or woman such as God intended...

There is a lot of things about Christianity that i wrestle with every day as far as faith goes but i do believe there is more out there then just this, and for my life experience this has been what i found to be true. I don't believe my God hates me, i believe his followers are close minded and hide behind the bible for there own selfish hate. Thou every day i try to find truth.

I know this has been along post, i have so much more i edited out of this, but anyone out there who has questions, wants to voice there ideas to me, or just wants to chat i welcome all messages...

<Keep thinking, always question>
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02-11-2010, 12:54 PM
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Welcome to the forum malikai. Glad to have you!

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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02-11-2010, 12:59 PM
 
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Thank you, i do not align myself as a atheist but i do welcome facts and knowledge, I am constantly trying to find truth, and i keep myself open to all thoughts and views. I believe that we are all here together and the only way to progress is to share ideas and knowledge. I listen to the podcast of the thinking atheist and i absolutely love the way he speaks and approaches the topics....

on another note i love long walks on the beach.... flowers... sunrises... lol
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02-11-2010, 02:06 PM
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Quote:"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
Isn't that Paul? Maybe you'd know when Jesus or God gave Paul and Peter the authority to ''modify'' Christianity (I've noticed that many things, like the idea of the ''old covenant'' and the ''new covenant'', are based on what Paul or Peter wrote, not on what has been wrote to been said by Jesus, unless Jesus gave them some special authority, and that's what I won't know 'till I get my bible to my hands [weekend])

Welcomes, enjoy thy stay!
Those stories, like the gay kid getting ''FAG'' carved on him with a knife, were horrrrrible!:F

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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02-11-2010, 03:50 PM
 
RE: Gay Christians... What?
Yes that passage was from Paul and his message to the Romans. Basically him showing and laying out righteousness and how we can do nothing to "save" ourselves... Thus making all deeds (Aka walking into church, singing nice songs, helping old people or just being good) a null point because what he is saying is its only by Jesus we are saved.... Using logic would mean it wouldn't matter if I am gay, straight, curse, steal, or murder. But that is just using the bible and trying to have logic with what it says...

I really wish i could say those stories were false but... all true and some of those a lot closer to home then i would wish upon anyone.


(02-11-2010 02:06 PM)Kikko Wrote:  
Quote:"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
Isn't that Paul? Maybe you'd know when Jesus or God gave Paul and Peter the authority to ''modify'' Christianity (I've noticed that many things, like the idea of the ''old covenant'' and the ''new covenant'', are based on what Paul or Peter wrote, not on what has been wrote to been said by Jesus, unless Jesus gave them some special authority, and that's what I won't know 'till I get my bible to my hands [weekend])

Welcomes, enjoy thy stay!
Those stories, like the gay kid getting ''FAG'' carved on him with a knife, were horrrrrible!:F
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02-11-2010, 10:51 PM
RE: Gay Christians... What?
(02-11-2010 12:59 PM)malikai Wrote:  I am constantly trying to find truth, and i keep myself open to all thoughts and views.

For this statement to be true, you must include the possibility that your god is the wrong god and another is the real god and that there is no god at all. Without being open to those possibilities, you are not actually being open. You would be trying to fit knowledge into a closed point of view. This is a common way that people use to convince themselves or others that they are in fact open when they are not.

I do not know at this time whether this applies to you or not, but if you post a lot it will become evident to us here. If you want feedback, just ask.
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02-11-2010, 11:03 PM
 
RE: Gay Christians... What?
I welcome that statement and actually agree with you too. If I come across evidence that proves "Hey there is no god and here is 100 percent proof why" Then i would be insane to close my eyes and mind to that. I base my belief upon prior brainwashing from Christan home, and on top of that personal actions and "feelings" in my life. I have thought of the outcome of the other options and the consequences of believing and not believing certain things at this point in my life. I understand many of the flaws in the bible, and i personally get a chuckle when people who haven't read the bible try to hold claim over me by using a book that states the exact opposite from what they try to say *ie homosexuals are going to hell* I understand there is a wide pool of knowledge out there that as of right now no one knows the complete answer too, but until i find that answer i will hold to my faith and belief. However my faith will not stop me from searching and trying to find the truth.
(Trust me i know it must sound like circles but that is how it is in my own mind, a eternal conflict)

(02-11-2010 10:51 PM)No J. Wrote:  
(02-11-2010 12:59 PM)malikai Wrote:  I am constantly trying to find truth, and i keep myself open to all thoughts and views.

For this statement to be true, you must include the possibility that your god is the wrong god and another is the real god and that there is no god at all. Without being open to those possibilities, you are not actually being open. You would be trying to fit knowledge into a closed point of view. This is a common way that people use to convince themselves or others that they are in fact open when they are not.

I do not know at this time whether this applies to you or not, but if you post a lot it will become evident to us here. If you want feedback, just ask.
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