Gay Marriage
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16-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Gay Marriage
Today the Maryland Legislature is scheduled to vote on allowing a referendum go forth for the people of the state to vote on Marriage Equality.

Monday I, and about 19 others, met with our state senator to lobby him for his support on the bill. He replied in the end that his Catholic values and beliefs do not allow him to support extending marriage to homosexuals.

Here's my thoughts on the religious values that prevent equality in our state and in this country.

http://centersolid.blogspot.com/2011/02/bigotry.html

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16-02-2011, 01:21 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2011 01:39 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Gay Marriage
Do you see polygamy as inherently wrong? As with most concepts of marriage there are plenty of places where these things are normal. Marriage in general is about a group who desires to join whatever form they hold with a legal binding that asks of society to accept this joining. I personally think that polygamy has a better chance to win in a court than same sex marriage though. Why?

The LGBT community of the US has still not won basic human rights. Especially on the T side, plenty of people still view these things as below human activities. I have experienced being a second class citizen. That basically means not everyone is sure that I am a person in the same sense that they are a person. So their definition of marriage is shattered by the idea of allowing "sub-humans" to marry. As was the case with inter-racial couples since a lesser human was marrying a human.

Do I think that many people would look me in the face and call me a sub-human? No, but I know that they feel this way by things they feel justified in doing. Gay marriage is a long way from being accepted in this nation, because enough people still don't find homosexuals to be the same class of human as themselves. The push for this issue is causing a lot of troubles for the LGBT rights movement in general.

Inter racial marriage wasn't presented before the idea of black people being equal to white people, so why is gay marriage being presented before straight people have really accepted that gay people are still people?

If gay marriage passes then that's wonderful, but gay people will still be denied aid by organizations who are supposed to provide aid for all, and denied housing. Because gay people are still not considered to be full humans. There is a lot more that the LGBT rights community needs to deal with before we talk marriage.

Sorry for the rant Seasbury, but it's a true enough issue for the movement. You had a very good article, I just felt to expand on this past bigotry into the old argument of what classifies a human as human. Since, you know, Christians feel homo-sapien-sapien has some sort of inherent superiority to all other life on earth. And have often made arguments as to superiority within variations of homo-sapien-sapien.

We can say that in 30 years we'll look back on this and call the ideas of the majority savage, but in general US citizens treat the LGBT community with less respect than domesticated pets. And, we know that a large majority of US citizens feel these pets have no soul which elevates themselves above the pets. I think it will take much longer than 30 years.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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16-02-2011, 01:42 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
(16-02-2011 01:21 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Do you see polygamy as inherently wrong? As with most concepts of marriage there are plenty of places where these things are normal. Marriage in general is about a group who desires to join whatever form they hold with a legal binding that asks of society to accept this joining. I personally think that polygamy has a better chance to win in a court than same sex marriage though. Why?

Lilith - Understand the issues you are dealing with, at least the frustrations.

Honestly, I could care less about polygamy - consenting adults...The government might care, for tax status reasons...

The same senator that could not back Marriage Equality did pledge his support to an anti-discrimination bill for LBGT.

I care more about marriage equality as it has direct bearing on family and friends and, the main rationale for opposing it is a fairy tale.

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16-02-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
I still felt your message was done very well I was just expanding it some, because the main issue herein lies with the fact marriage equality is an issue to aid the more capable LGBT, plenty of us are dealing with a lot more than marriage.

I'm sorry if you feel my statements were made in the wrong place, I'm happy to hear that you are standing up. I just feel there is so much more to the issue than marriage.

The question about polygamy had to do with how it was mentioned in your article so more of a request for elaboration (thanks for the answer).

The actual response dealt wholely with LGBT rights. Your statement that the senator was for one but not the other is what I'm saying. If we press marriage too hard then the other rights will be ignored. Because people like your senator may decide they are intertwined. All the sudden your senator is no longer for LGBT discrimination laws, because he feels they will lead to LGBT marriage laws. It's just a dangerous time to be pushing for it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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18-02-2011, 07:28 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
(16-02-2011 01:54 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  The actual response dealt wholely with LGBT rights. Your statement that the senator was for one but not the other is what I'm saying. If we press marriage too hard then the other rights will be ignored. Because people like your senator may decide they are intertwined. All the sudden your senator is no longer for LGBT discrimination laws, because he feels they will lead to LGBT marriage laws. It's just a dangerous time to be pushing for it.

I have a different perspective on this question (which may be 100% wrong but I'll throw it out there anyway). I do agree that marriage is the Holy Grail and if you push for it you are more likely to meet resistance on other issues, but I think that is the reason to push for it. It is much easier to view someone as "less than" if they don't have what you have. If gay couples can get married and are treated equally under the law, it becomes far more difficult to justify other forms of discrimination. You win this battle, you really win all the battles. I think opponents of gay marriage probably realize this, which is why they are so vehemently opposed to it.

I really see this as the civil rights battle of my time. I am, in the traditional sense of the word, a "normal" guy. I'm white, straight, married, 2 kids, etc. And, I'm the guy these religious groups are claiming to "protect" from the threat of gay marriage. I've never understood how two people in a committed relationship who want to get the same legal rights and protections I have is any kind of threat to me. On the contrary, I think finding an artificial reason to prohibit the granting of those basic rights is the actual threat.

Anyway, it's easy for me to have an opinion because I've got no actual skin in the game, but I agree with Seasbury that gay marriage should be the immediate goal.

Oh, and on polygamy, I can absolutely see why the government is never going to recognize it. You want to have a threesome, have it, but they are never going to start dealing with the legal ramifications of polygamous marriages.

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18-02-2011, 08:31 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
I agree with BnW. I usually put it humorously, that gay people have every right to be as miserable as the rest of us. I use that joke to highlight the LACK of sanctity that I see in too many marriages. Is marriage a good thing? I definitely think so, and I think it should be taken seriously. I also think that the tipping point will happen in our lifetime, and possibly within a decade or two. And this could honestly lead to a lot more general happiness in the gay community as well as in the country in general.

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19-02-2011, 12:50 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
Personally, I wouldn't give a shit about gay marriage one way or another. But when I see who gets pissed off at the very idea, I'm all for it. Big Grin

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26-02-2011, 05:12 PM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
(16-02-2011 01:21 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  why is gay marriage being presented before straight people have really accepted that gay people are still people?

You seem to be speaking about "straight people" as a homogeneous group...How is this not a form of prejudice? It also seems quite presumptuous to speak about anyone else 'accepting' other people.
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26-02-2011, 06:02 PM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
I have to jump on board this marriage bus....I wish like all else that my husband had a couple more wives..That shit would seriously help me out around the house. In the same breath I am on my 3rd marriage <WTF> I know the struggles with staying together. I think I have a Civil Union...If you want to give labels to everything out there I have a "Civil Union" Because I went to the court house, said "yes""I do" bam....It was over..However this relationship is stronger then any of the others.... If I wanted a "marriage" which I think includes a civil union then i go in front of a religious dude and re affirm the piece of paper from the courthouse. Either way..we all have the same rights , etc..... Smile
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26-02-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
I hate the idea that the states are letting the PEOPLE to decide who gets rights to a minority? Ever heard of tyranny of the majority?

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