Gay Marriage
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26-02-2011, 08:39 PM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
I think that with enough time gay marriage will become legalized statewide. It took a while for blacks to get the same equality as other people, it equally took a while for interracial marriage to become accepted, and it will take a while for gay marriage to become universally accepted.

Another thing that makes it hard for gays to get the same marriage equality is religion. Religion is the biggest roadblock for equality that there is. An example of this is here in California when we were voting for Prop 8 the Mormons campaigned obsessively on a no vote. They put thousands and thousands of dollars towards the campaign and Prop 8 did not pass, EVEN THOUGH CALIFORNIA IS A LIBERAL STATE.

This prop has been going up and down and all around here in California for a while now, so many people want it to pass yet the religions fundamentalists are shelling out as much money and propaganda as they can to wedge the biggest roadblock possible. It's just vile.
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27-02-2011, 04:13 AM
RE: Gay Marriage
(26-02-2011 08:39 PM)Diclonius Wrote:  I think that with enough time gay marriage will become legalized statewide. It took a while for blacks to get the same equality as other people, it equally took a while for interracial marriage to become accepted, and it will take a while for gay marriage to become universally accepted.

Another thing that makes it hard for gays to get the same marriage equality is religion. Religion is the biggest roadblock for equality that there is. An example of this is here in California when we were voting for Prop 8 the Mormons campaigned obsessively on a no vote. They put thousands and thousands of dollars towards the campaign and Prop 8 did not pass, EVEN THOUGH CALIFORNIA IS A LIBERAL STATE.

This prop has been going up and down and all around here in California for a while now, so many people want it to pass yet the religions fundamentalists are shelling out as much money and propaganda as they can to wedge the biggest roadblock possible. It's just vile.

I thought Prop 8 was the anti-gay marriage bill? That defined marriage as between a man and a woman? So wouldn't it be good it didn't pass? Tongue

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27-02-2011, 09:42 AM
RE: Gay Marriage
(26-02-2011 05:12 PM)sano Wrote:  
(16-02-2011 01:21 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  why is gay marriage being presented before straight people have really accepted that gay people are still people?

You seem to be speaking about "straight people" as a homogeneous group...How is this not a form of prejudice? It also seems quite presumptuous to speak about anyone else 'accepting' other people.

I am not speaking of anyone as a homogenous group, but the majority is the majority one way or another. You know what would happen in Missouri if gay marriage was passed? Plenty of people would get married and end up fired without enough real suits because their jobs are not protected from the discrimination.

The use of the term straight people is because of it being an anti gay law, the anti-gay gay populace is much smaller than the anti-gay straight populace. I do all sorts of outreach and have plenty of people who understand me. It's not hard for me to get support from those I interact with (outside of a job). But those I reach even if I change their opinion do not make up the majority, and in this country that majority is shown by a much smaller number of elected officials.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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27-02-2011, 11:27 AM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
You are speaking of stereotypes, and venturing into predicting the possible future.
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27-02-2011, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2011 11:38 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Gay Marriage
I'm discussing American laws and how they've been done, and how if this law is passed without other laws changing would work. A lot of politics is patterns that are easy to read and shifts happen, but generally when people are dealing with these things they get a good idea about what the climate is now and try to be optimistic for years ahead when maybe what they do will change that climate some.

Trends and politics are not about individuals as much as group dynamics, there are more stereotypes among groups than individuals. Including that since we elect specific people to determine what our best interest is, often the ones who say what an area's opinions of something are, say very marginalized opinions but are still elected due to other things they believe which regular people in their area agree with.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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27-02-2011, 11:35 AM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
(27-02-2011 11:31 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I'm discussing American laws and how they've been done, and how if this law is passed without other laws changing would work.

Yeah, that's what I said...you're attempting to predict the outcome of possible future events.

You have no way of knowing what WILL happen.
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27-02-2011, 11:41 AM
RE: Gay Marriage
I followed up this article with another one on the administrations' decision to no longer defend the Defense of Marriage Act. the pertinent part of the article follows:

I've spent all morning looking up a quote that I wanted to use. I'll give the credit to Richard Dawkins, even though I can't find it in the exact words, so this might be semi-original:

"It's a special form of bigotry that allows a group of people, based on ancient theological text, to deny the right of another life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, when the actions taken have absolutely no bearing on their own lives."

I was thinking about writing a wholly separate article on this issue, but since we're here, and I've had a couple beers, let's just get it out in the open.

I find myself in a strange position - I truly have no understanding of, for lack of a better term, "gayness." Personally, I really don't want to see two guys making out. I don't understand the attraction is what it probably boils down to. So for me to find myself a "straight ally" of the gay community is a weird mantle to hold. In the end, this isn't about gay rights folks - this is about human rights and the right to dignity - those are values that I'll champion at any point.

Go back and look at that map - countries that would deem to put people in prison for life or just flat out kill them for pursuing that which they are biologically wired for are the same countries whose human rights abuses are beyond the pale and in direct odds with American values. You know, I was just about to say (literally had typed it out and had to backspace over it) that while I respect the Christian values that stand in opposition of marriage equality, those same values are not applicable in a secular government that respects all religions equally - even the non-theist philosophies of humanism, skepticism, and rational thinkers. I can't respect a religious dogma that requires government action to uphold a specific religious doctrine such as this. You can argue your point until the cows come home, but the fact is opposition to gay marriage is no different than opposition to interracial marriage or support for slavery - both practices were justified on biblical grounds. I realize that people don't want to be bigots, or bigoted for that matter - but you really need to think about where you stand on the issue. I've had to self address many of my own prejudices - sometimes you look in the mirror and just can't help but seeing the ugliness for what it really is.

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27-02-2011, 12:52 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
Wasn't there a study that showed that fundamentalist christians have higher divorce rates despite the fact that the bible condemns divorce ? Oh yeah - they still consider marriage sacred Big Grin

As for the LGBTq community - get married , more power to you

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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27-02-2011, 01:26 PM
 
RE: Gay Marriage
(27-02-2011 04:13 AM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I thought Prop 8 was the anti-gay marriage bill? That defined marriage as between a man and a woman? So wouldn't it be good it didn't pass? Tongue

Prop 8 was the bill for gay marriage, a "no" on Prop 8 was a no on gay marriage. I rallied actively for a yes on the prop so that gays could legally have the right to marry in my state, unfortunately all my rallying did was get my "yes on prop 8" signs slashed to bits in my front yard. Dodgy
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27-02-2011, 02:04 PM
RE: Gay Marriage
(27-02-2011 01:26 PM)Diclonius Wrote:  
(27-02-2011 04:13 AM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I thought Prop 8 was the anti-gay marriage bill? That defined marriage as between a man and a woman? So wouldn't it be good it didn't pass? Tongue

Prop 8 was the bill for gay marriage, a "no" on Prop 8 was a no on gay marriage. I rallied actively for a yes on the prop so that gays could legally have the right to marry in my state, unfortunately all my rallying did was get my "yes on prop 8" signs slashed to bits in my front yard. Dodgy

Actually it's the other way around:

Prop 8 "was a ballot proposition and constitutional amendment passed in the November 2008 state elections. The measure added a new provision, Section 7.5 of the Declaration of Rights, to the California Constitution, which provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

Prop 8 was to limit the definition of marriage between opposite sex persons. If you voted Yes, then you voted against gay marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_8

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