Gay genes.
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07-06-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  What I am talking about is that 'determined' gayness may not be as authentic as many use to justify their gayness,. No I am not saying they have to justify anything, before someone jumps in.
Yes, very poor choice of words. It seems to betray your current mindset.
How about use the word "explain" rather than "justify". I don't see you ever talking in terms of "justification" for heterosexuality.

(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As many gays use the genetic determinism thing to justify their sexuality it is relevant, in my view, when it comes to some gay lobbying
Gay lobbying is also a very poor choice of terms. How about use the term "equal rights regardless of sexual orientation".

(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  No straight people don't have to prove anything as the marital order has remained constant for thousands of years.
As a guess I would think gay sex has been around for millions of years if not since the very beginning of sexual reproduction. Heterosexual sex does not necessarily have a time advantage on homosexual sex. You seem to make some very poor assumptions, again betraying your current mindset.

(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I have experienced both hererosexuality and homosexuality and am not anti gay per se.
You have willing had gay sex?

(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I like to look at arguments from both sides and simply refuse to be muzzled by supporters of any ideology......
The problem with you is that you use a poor choice of words and you make some very poor assumptions. It is clear that you have the mindset of a homophobic.
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07-06-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: Gay genes.
Facepalm

Again?...still?

I can’t find it now but there is a Russian short story that perfectly fits you Woof.

It is about a man who has company over and he repeatedly goes into the kitchen to check on the meal being prepared by his young maid. He lingers a bit in the kitchen and when he comes back some of his friends joke that he must have a thing for the maid though none of them believe it, just having fun with him. He denies it. They tease him some more and he denies it even more vehemently. The more they tease the more upset he becomes. Soon everyone begins to suspect that perhaps he is having an affair with the maid because he so strongly denies it and refuses to let the subject drop.

That’s the gist. You are the host here refusing to drop the subject. I didn’t suspect you had any gay tendencies at first but now I quite convinced you do.

How does the meal taste now?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-06-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Gay genes.
They may not have isolated a specific gene, but they have shown pheromone receptors to function differently. The receptors of heterosexuals tend to be receptive only to pheromones of the opposite sex. The receptors of homosexuals tend to be receptive only to pheromones of the same sex. The receptors of bisexuals seem unable to differentiate between the two, and it is therefore irrelevant when determining whether or not someone is a chemical match.

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07-06-2015, 07:15 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  No straight people don't have to prove anything as the marital order has remained constant for thousands of years.

Slavery existed for thousands of years. Did that make it right ? Since when does the length of time of a stupid idea, or ignorance of a subject, justify it ? The idea of the gods existed for thousands of years. Facepalm

The NEW information concerning sexual orientation which arose in the late 1800's CHANGED the way humans looked at sexuality. The "thousands of years" bullshit was invalidated by the new information. We're not talking about "marital order". We're talking about the origins of orientation.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2015, 07:47 PM
RE: Gay genes.
I mean do I choose to be straight?

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07-06-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 03:48 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 03:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... and ?

Well! Come up with what you will.
The claim that most gays are genetically determined to be that way, and choice is an impossibility may well be misleading.

It is no more a choice than any other sexual attraction.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-06-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 05:06 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 04:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I can't work it out, please enlighten me.

You have stated in another thread that you don't think gays should be allowed to adopt or have surrogacy. So I guess this thread is in someways you trying to justify your own homophobic position.


For the most part I am polite but I do find it hard to have an honest discussion with you because you don't care to debate. You make a claim and then tend to run off and start another anti gay thread.


There are two main issues with this thread of yours.
1. You are claiming that gay is a choice rather than a genetic disposition. But you have not disclosed why you think this distinction matters. Based on your previous (and ongoing) interactions in this forum a reasonable person would conclude Mr Woof wants gay to be a choice so that he can pass moral judgement on all gays.
This matter needs to be cleared up first.
You need to disclose why it is important whether gay is choice or genetic?


2. The best you can do is to point out that there is no currently known gay gene. But DNA is an incredibly complex recipe. It isn't a set of attributes. You don't grab the blue eye gene, the blonde hair gene, the 5"9 gene, the long eye lashes gene, and mix them into produce the girl of your dreams. There is much that we don't know about genes, so you can't point to lack of knowledge and try to derive something such as a conclusion that gay is a choice. This conclusion just highlights your own drive, your own fears about homosexuality.

If it is really a choice, perhaps you could choose to be gay for a year, get hard over some guy, and enjoy erotic sex with him. You could then come back to this forum and tell us all about this choice of yours and then having been experienced in both hetero and homosexual relationships you could then truly make the best choice going forward for you.
I only have time to address issue 1.
Hard line genetic determinism may well mean some gays have no choice.
Now I am not saying having a choice or more than one choice is wrong.
Bi-sexuality for example where the choice(s) is up to the individual.
If gays who are choosing openly, as some gays allude to (see op reference), they should be seen as exercising a choice, not simply being born that way.
I see the claim that all gays are genetically determined as such as muddying the waters. As indicated, I see free choice re sexual behaviour and choice of same sex partner as a right, and have not argued otherwise.

No, your thinking is - at best - simplistic. You make false dichotomies, thinking something is either pre-determined or a choice.

Heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual are no more choices than being attracted to redheads or big asses.

What is your obsession with this?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-06-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 08:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 05:06 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I only have time to address issue 1.
Hard line genetic determinism may well mean some gays have no choice.
Now I am not saying having a choice or more than one choice is wrong.
Bi-sexuality for example where the choice(s) is up to the individual.
If gays who are choosing openly, as some gays allude to (see op reference), they should be seen as exercising a choice, not simply being born that way.
I see the claim that all gays are genetically determined as such as muddying the waters. As indicated, I see free choice re sexual behaviour and choice of same sex partner as a right, and have not argued otherwise.

No, your thinking is - at best - simplistic. You make false dichotomies, thinking something is either pre-determined or a choice.

Heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual are no more choices than being attracted to redheads or big asses.

What is your obsession with this?

Best bet he is desperate to find something, anything, to blame his poor decisions and failures on.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-06-2015, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2015 08:25 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 06:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Did I say that ? No. Are you asking about whether opposite sex orientation is genetically determined ? No. Why is that ? It may not be genetically determined. It may be epigentically determined. What the hell difference does it make ? Do straight people talk about when they "decided to be straight" ? No they don't. When and if that starts to happen, then the question may be valid. Until then, the presumption that anyone is deciding anything, is complete bullshit.

What I am talking about is that 'determined' gayness may not be as authentic as many use to justify their gayness,. No I am not saying they have to justify anything, before someone jumps in.
As many gays use the genetic determinism thing to justify their sexuality it is relevant, in my view, when it comes to some gay lobbying, that, in some cases may present fatuous arguments. No straight people don't have to prove anything as the marital order has remained constant for thousands of years. Again, our evolution may currently look grim.
I have experienced both hererosexuality and homosexuality and am not anti gay per se.
I am not an old queen desiring male copulation as one poster indicated, nor am I a gay apologist simply to appease their supporters.
I like to look at arguments from both sides and simply refuse to be muzzled by supporters of any ideology......

But you have presented no EVIDENCE for your assertions. Our evolution most certainly does not "look grim", and you can't even bother to state why you present that opinion, much less support it. Another assertion with no evidence. No one is "muzzling" you. So far there is not one reason presented to even take your questions seriously UNTIL you present some evidence. YOU have implied human sexuality is a choice. If that is true, then it's universally true. I have never heard any totally "straight" person claim they made a choice for that at any point. They "found themselves to be straight", just like everyone else discovers, (NOT *choses*) their sexuality.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 06:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As many gays use the genetic determinism thing to justify their sexuality
Justify?

Some within the LBGT may speculate that genetics could be the cause of their sexual orientation, I struggle to think of why they or I would need to 'Justify' their sexuality.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too"? - Douglas Adams Bechased
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