Gay genes.
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08-06-2015, 04:34 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(08-06-2015 04:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 03:53 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  It really proved to me that many people here simply use science to push their preferred position.
No one has stated that there is or isn't a gay gene other than yourself seemingly claiming that there isn't one and therefore making the claim that it is a choice for all.

(08-06-2015 03:53 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As a practicing bi-sexual (by free choice in my view) during my teens and twenties I encountered at least the practicalities of such, so am not speaking simply as some sort of noxious novice.
Aha, this is relevant to know. It may help us better understand where your ideas are coming from. So it seem that sexual preference is a choice for you, I don't think that necessarily means that it is a choice for all others.

I'm now wondering if you have regrets or felt that you were in some ways doing something wrong or unnatural or something? Is this why you see gay as an issue and requiring justification and not being suitable for adoption etc?

(08-06-2015 03:53 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As I am seen as pushing this issue unfairly I choose not to expand further.
This is the problem with these threads of yours. You start them up in a controversial manner and then run away and start another one up. You aren't taking the time to sort things out.

I have written extensively on this for some three years'.
You can check the old posts if you wish.
Topic ended here for mine...........
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08-06-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(08-06-2015 04:34 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I have written extensively on this for some three years'.
You can check the old posts if you wish.
Topic ended here for mine...........

Ain't that the truth...

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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08-06-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(08-06-2015 04:10 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I am a ponderer, not an angry 'old queen'Thumbsup

You keep telling yourself that, and maybe some day you'll believe it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-06-2015, 05:44 AM
RE: Gay genes.
(08-06-2015 08:24 AM)Nurse Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 06:05 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  At least you wouldn't have to worry about leaving the toilet seat up....

Dodgy so you hover when you take a shit?


Nope. I leave a light on in the bathroom 24/7 (an LED) so I can SEE if the seat is up.

If you fall in because the seat is up, that's your fault.

You look BOTH ways before crossing the street, right?? You can at least look down and see if the seat is up or down........

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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09-06-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: Gay genes.
(09-06-2015 05:44 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 08:24 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Dodgy so you hover when you take a shit?


Nope. I leave a light on in the bathroom 24/7 (an LED) so I can SEE if the seat is up.

If you fall in because the seat is up, that's your fault.

You look BOTH ways before crossing the street, right?? You can at least look down and see if the seat is up or down........

The easiest solution is to simply leave the toilet seat down all the time and pee in the general direction of the toilet and hope for the best. Or a Chinese style squat pot, on which you do indeed have to hover.

'Murican Canadian
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09-06-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(08-06-2015 05:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 04:10 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I am a ponderer, not an angry 'old queen'Thumbsup

You keep telling yourself that, and maybe some day you'll believe it.

2 points of order Mr Ball.

Re above> never a queen at any age, Anjele got it wrong.
(2) Check the OP before accusing posters of not providing a link etc.
I mentioned a Professor Emeritus of Neuro Science et al and provided the
link Procon.org.
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09-06-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 04:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 04:29 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Ha ha! I'm not getting sucked in!
Perhaps some members would like to consider the issues of 'free will' and 'determinism' and how such apply to all of our social issues.............

Perhaps some members are sick to fucking death of your obsession and your hope that there's an excuse as to why you like the dick.

You don't even understand.
Free choice means means responsibility for one's behaviour.
Hardline genetic determinism means lack of choice.(hardwired)

RE your 'old queen' quote both 'anti gay' and ageist........
Some long time back I confided some very personal stuff re my youth(Gay life in the Sixties)
Hardly too nice to throw it up in my face................................
Never a queen either so you even got that wrong...tops and bottoms you know!
Other contributors may be well advised not to be too open.Consider

Also I have over almost four years contributed on a wide range of topics.
Apparently, to a few, if I'm not complaining I am obsessed with homophobia.
Where the lie is perpetrated long enough it becomes indelibly entrenched.
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09-06-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(07-06-2015 03:34 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The issue as to whether gays are genetically determined that way' or whether choice is an issue is controversial Procon.org.
No gay gene has been discovered and the scientific community is split on the issue.
Indeed, some gays such as Cynthia Nixon of Sex in the City dislikes the claim that her choice isn't really one, but something pre determined.
Camille Paglia Phd , Ben Carsons Pofessor Emeritus Neuro Science et al see choice as also a factor.
It would seem that bi-sexuality adds further to the idea that many gay people choose their sexuality rather than being driven by it.

Then thing here is that if sexuality is pre-determined then it is pre-determined for all sexualities, not just gay people, making a comment about liking or disliking a pre-determined sexuality moot.

Ultimately I believe it to be a blend of a number of both biological and environmental factors and that those various factors come in different mixes, to look for one defining factor seems a ridiculous notion.

Besides... I wouldn't call them gay genes, I'd call them sexuality genes, because it definitely seems to me sexuality is not a 3-way (gay-bi-straight) switch but a spectrum, much like any other human trait.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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10-06-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(09-06-2015 04:03 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  You don't even understand.
Free choice means responsibility for one's behaviour.
Hardline genetic determinism means lack of choice.(hardwired)
Yeah, I'm not sure what you are getting at, or what point you are making.
When you say "responsibility for one's behaviour", what do you mean by this?
I mean, if I make a "free" choice to go over to a person and initiate conversation then this is done from my own "free will" depending on how you look at it (ignoring the laws of physics et al).
So now this means I am responsible for having taken that action. But responsible in what sense?
I guess you could claim that if I hadn't taken any initiative then perhaps I would be a lonely person, not getting to know others, to make friends or a significant other. That my loneliness would be my own responsibility(fault) because I have the choice to engage in conversations or to avoid interaction.
In the context of sexual relationships, "No" is always an option and "Yes" is sometimes an option. So if we are fortunate enough to find "Yes" as a viable option then we have the "free will" to choose between yes or no and we can hold ourselves accountable (responsible) for those decisions. Accountable for the outcomes of our decisions e.g. pregnancy, STDs, a broken hearted wife, etc.
In the context of sexual preference, I'm not sure how free will and responsibility (accountability) can be applied. If you have a preference for a particular partner be it based on gender or skin colour or shape or size or attributes such as humour etc? Is this really a choice? Able you able to wake up in the morning and decide that today you are going to have a sexual preference for people with green eyes and tomorrow you are going to have a sexual preference for people with brown eyes? Or is it just something that happens to you (beyond your conscious control). You see a person and for some reason you feel attracted? Or perhaps over a length of time you find yourself attracted to a person you didn't think you would have been attracted to?
Does this happen on a sub-conscious level or is it a conscious decision. From my own life experience my attractions haven't been a conscious decision. But from a "responsibility" perspective, I am very confused as to what could be seen as a responsibility. Could I blame myself for being attracted to girls with blue eyes? I mean, so what if I am attracted to girls with blue eyes, what is there to blame? Should I feel guilt, should I beat myself up?
This idea of responsibility makes me think that you assume there is a morality behind attraction. That one choice would be "wrong" and that you should beat yourself up for consciously choosing the "wrong" option.

My current thinking is that Mr Woof might be self loathing that he perhaps blames himself for being who he is. He feels guilt for being himself.
Am I right here or am I way off the mark? I am just not clear as to certain statements made by Mr Woof. Implying that a person is responsible for their own attractions. I am just not sure what to make of that.
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10-06-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(10-06-2015 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 04:03 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  You don't even understand.
Free choice means responsibility for one's behaviour.
Hardline genetic determinism means lack of choice.(hardwired)
Yeah, I'm not sure what you are getting at, or what point you are making.
When you say "responsibility for one's behaviour", what do you mean by this?
I mean, if I make a "free" choice to go over to a person and initiate conversation then this is done from my own "free will" depending on how you look at it (ignoring the laws of physics et al).
So now this means I am responsible for having taken that action. But responsible in what sense?
I guess you could claim that if I hadn't taken any initiative then perhaps I would be a lonely person, not getting to know others, to make friends or a significant other. That my loneliness would be my own responsibility(fault) because I have the choice to engage in conversations or to avoid interaction.
In the context of sexual relationships, "No" is always an option and "Yes" is sometimes an option. So if we are fortunate enough to find "Yes" as a viable option then we have the "free will" to choose between yes or no and we can hold ourselves accountable (responsible) for those decisions. Accountable for the outcomes of our decisions e.g. pregnancy, STDs, a broken hearted wife, etc.
In the context of sexual preference, I'm not sure how free will and responsibility (accountability) can be applied. If you have a preference for a particular partner be it based on gender or skin colour or shape or size or attributes such as humour etc? Is this really a choice? Able you able to wake up in the morning and decide that today you are going to have a sexual preference for people with green eyes and tomorrow you are going to have a sexual preference for people with brown eyes? Or is it just something that happens to you (beyond your conscious control). You see a person and for some reason you feel attracted? Or perhaps over a length of time you find yourself attracted to a person you didn't think you would have been attracted to?
Does this happen on a sub-conscious level or is it a conscious decision. From my own life experience my attractions haven't been a conscious decision. But from a "responsibility" perspective, I am very confused as to what could be seen as a responsibility. Could I blame myself for being attracted to girls with blue eyes? I mean, so what if I am attracted to girls with blue eyes, what is there to blame? Should I feel guilt, should I beat myself up?
This idea of responsibility makes me think that you assume there is a morality behind attraction. That one choice would be "wrong" and that you should beat yourself up for consciously choosing the "wrong" option.

My current thinking is that Mr Woof might be self loathing that he perhaps blames himself for being who he is. He feels guilt for being himself.
Am I right here or am I way off the mark? I am just not clear as to certain statements made by Mr Woof. Implying that a person is responsible for their own attractions. I am just not sure what to make of that.
I feel no guilt or self loathing relevant to my past which included bi-sexuality, swinging, group sex, alcoholism and drug abuse.
I see guilt and self loathing as highly undesirable emotional states.
That is not to say that certain behaviors do not teach us new values.

As for free will and determinism philosophers have debated such for thousands
of years. For mine, I endeavour to adopt as balanced nature/ nurture outlook as best I can. While we may be pre disposed genetically to certain traits I see this as needing to be balanced with many other variables.............
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