Gay genes.
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10-06-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(10-06-2015 05:55 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yeah, I'm not sure what you are getting at, or what point you are making.
When you say "responsibility for one's behaviour", what do you mean by this?
I mean, if I make a "free" choice to go over to a person and initiate conversation then this is done from my own "free will" depending on how you look at it (ignoring the laws of physics et al).
So now this means I am responsible for having taken that action. But responsible in what sense?
I guess you could claim that if I hadn't taken any initiative then perhaps I would be a lonely person, not getting to know others, to make friends or a significant other. That my loneliness would be my own responsibility(fault) because I have the choice to engage in conversations or to avoid interaction.
In the context of sexual relationships, "No" is always an option and "Yes" is sometimes an option. So if we are fortunate enough to find "Yes" as a viable option then we have the "free will" to choose between yes or no and we can hold ourselves accountable (responsible) for those decisions. Accountable for the outcomes of our decisions e.g. pregnancy, STDs, a broken hearted wife, etc.
In the context of sexual preference, I'm not sure how free will and responsibility (accountability) can be applied. If you have a preference for a particular partner be it based on gender or skin colour or shape or size or attributes such as humour etc? Is this really a choice? Able you able to wake up in the morning and decide that today you are going to have a sexual preference for people with green eyes and tomorrow you are going to have a sexual preference for people with brown eyes? Or is it just something that happens to you (beyond your conscious control). You see a person and for some reason you feel attracted? Or perhaps over a length of time you find yourself attracted to a person you didn't think you would have been attracted to?
Does this happen on a sub-conscious level or is it a conscious decision. From my own life experience my attractions haven't been a conscious decision. But from a "responsibility" perspective, I am very confused as to what could be seen as a responsibility. Could I blame myself for being attracted to girls with blue eyes? I mean, so what if I am attracted to girls with blue eyes, what is there to blame? Should I feel guilt, should I beat myself up?
This idea of responsibility makes me think that you assume there is a morality behind attraction. That one choice would be "wrong" and that you should beat yourself up for consciously choosing the "wrong" option.

My current thinking is that Mr Woof might be self loathing that he perhaps blames himself for being who he is. He feels guilt for being himself.
Am I right here or am I way off the mark? I am just not clear as to certain statements made by Mr Woof. Implying that a person is responsible for their own attractions. I am just not sure what to make of that.
I feel no guilt or self loathing relevant to my past which included bi-sexuality, swinging, group sex, alcoholism and drug abuse.
I see guilt and self loathing as highly undesirable emotional states.
That is not to say that certain behaviors do not teach us new values.

As for free will and determinism philosophers have debated such for thousands
of years. For mine, I endeavour to adopt as balanced nature/ nurture outlook as best I can. While we may be pre disposed genetically to certain traits I see this as needing to be balanced with many other variables.............

Much like in the media, 'balance' is not always a thing which is necessary or realistic.

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10-06-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(10-06-2015 05:55 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I feel no guilt or self loathing relevant to my past which included bi-sexuality, swinging, group sex, alcoholism and drug abuse.
I see guilt and self loathing as highly undesirable emotional states.
OK, I'm glad to hear this from you. Thanks for sharing. It seems you have had a colourful life so far.

(10-06-2015 05:55 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for free will and determinism philosophers have debated such for thousands
of years. For mine, I endeavour to adopt as balanced nature/ nurture outlook as best I can. While we may be pre disposed genetically to certain traits I see this as needing to be balanced with many other variables.............
Personally I don't see a need to worry about such things as nurture vs nature.
Make your own decisions based on your own decision making process, stand by your decisions, run away from them, delegate them to others, do whatever works for you.

My personal philosophy (for me) is to be confident in myself, accept that life isn't about making perfect decisions, that mistakes are sometimes just the fall of the probability dice or sometimes are a valuable lesson preparing us for the future. The worst thing to do would be to be afraid to make decisions.

Anyway, I'd taken an interest in this thread and in particular you because I was intrigued as I couldn't quite understand what you are getting at.

I'm still am quite confused as to this thread, It's asking if sexual preference is genetic or choice which is, I guess, somewhat interesting. But I am still unclear as to the purpose for trying to find the answer.

Obviously choosing to be gay or straight (assuming it is a choice) isn't a choice between right and wrong. It seems to be merely a choice whether to take a relationship with a particular someone to a physical level or not.
I'm still not sure how the gender of that someone affects what is determined to be the "responsibility" of the choice.

But hey, there are many things I don't understand.
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12-06-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: Gay genes.
I know homosexuals that say that had always felt compelled to be with the same sex, and others who have told me they felt that they freely choose it.

I either liked or disliked them for their personality, not their sexuality.
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12-06-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Gay genes.
Try though I might, I can't figure out what the point of this stupid thread is.

Enlighten me, OP?


it... it's trolling, isn't it

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12-06-2015, 06:37 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 05:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Try though I might, I can't figure out what the point of this stupid thread is.

Enlighten me, OP?
A positive claim was made in the original post; that there has not been found a gene that causes homosexuality.

Quote:it... it's trolling, isn't it
Nope.
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12-06-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 06:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 05:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Try though I might, I can't figure out what the point of this stupid thread is.

Enlighten me, OP?
A positive claim was made in the original post; that there has not been found a gene that causes homosexuality.

That merely demonstrated the OP's poor understanding of genetics. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 06:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 06:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  A positive claim was made in the original post; that there has not been found a gene that causes homosexuality.

That merely demonstrated the OP's poor understanding of genetics. Drinking Beverage

Mayhap it does.

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12-06-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 05:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Try though I might, I can't figure out what the point of this stupid thread is.

Enlighten me, OP?


it... it's trolling, isn't it

The point is to bring up the same topic with different phrasing over and over again till everyone agrees.

So far the success of this ploy has been rather dismal.

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12-06-2015, 06:57 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 06:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 05:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Try though I might, I can't figure out what the point of this stupid thread is.

Enlighten me, OP?
A positive claim was made in the original post; that there has not been found a gene that causes homosexuality.

There is almost never a single gene to cause anything.

Granting that non-starter regardless, so what?

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12-06-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Gay genes.
(12-06-2015 06:57 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 06:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  A positive claim was made in the original post; that there has not been found a gene that causes homosexuality.

There is almost never a single gene to cause anything.

Granting that non-starter regardless, so what?

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Dunno'. Ask him.
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