"Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
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12-02-2013, 04:35 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(12-02-2013 04:25 AM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  Hi Lion... Forgive me - I was not trying to say that they are the same or equal, but the Christian in question was arguing against the sin and unnaturalness principally of homosexual sex rather than homosexual desire. At which point, it seems relevant to point out the prevalence of homosexual sex in nature, even if it is undertaken for different reasons. Also the fact that some species practice predominantly gay sex other than for the purposes of procreation (I have read something about 95% of giraffe sexual behaviour being homosexual?)

Clearly using animal sexuality as any kind of justification for human sexual behaviour is flawed, since it encompasses rape, incest and necrophilia, and cannot be directly comparable to committed human sexual relationships, either gay or straight. But for the point that the guy was making, that the act of gay sex is not natural, I think limiting discussion to human nature helps religions to reinforce their own understandings and misunderstandings of what is natural.

I had only the smallest wee space in which to try to debate the point, so my response was rather less than nuanced. There was so much more to say about the beauty and naturalness of gay love itself, but it was not the time or the place.

Hey, yesthoseareyourfeet!

Don't mind the troll, he seems unable to deal with the fact that humans are just another species of animal. Makes him feel all warm and tingly inside to think that he is so very special and his precious little self will live for ever and ever (even after the universe has stopped existing).

Oh, and welcome, you ancient 34-old Dodgy

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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12-02-2013, 05:14 PM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(12-02-2013 04:35 AM)Vera Wrote:  Hey, yesthoseareyourfeet!

Don't mind the troll, he seems unable to deal with the fact that humans are just another species of animal. Makes him feel all warm and tingly inside to think that he is so very special and his precious little self will live for ever and ever (even after the universe has stopped existing).

Oh, and welcome, you ancient 34-old Dodgy
Thank you, Vera... I do worry about offending people, especially as my point was not as clearly made as it might have been, but I guess I will learn which posters are most likely to jump on me.

As for the age thing, it's more that I've always felt very old and weary, even when I was 18, whereas other people may always be extremely youthful, vibrant and fabulous, whatever age they are. I am certain that at any given age you possess levels of epic fabulousness to which I can only aspire Smile

(Incidentally, I had not encountered "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry" before, but I guess it may be more common currency than I thought. As a theological position, it seems roughly on a level with "Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten" - but sadly not ironic.)
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12-02-2013, 05:38 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2013 06:24 PM by Vera.)
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(12-02-2013 05:14 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  Thank you, Vera... I do worry about offending people, especially as my point was not as clearly made as it might have been, but I guess I will learn which posters are most likely to jump on me.

I say, if you haven't said anything hurtful, it's not your problem if someone decides to get their unmentionables in a bunch.

Also, the rep (combined with date of joining) is a pretty good indicator if someone's worth the time and effort (not my rep though; that was all done with mirrors. Mirrors and in several extreme cases - blackmail [Image: JC_shhh.gif] ). All kidding aside, you see someone in the red - chances are, they have been weighed in the balances and found wanting Tongue

Quote:As for the age thing, it's more that I've always felt very old and weary, even when I was 18, whereas other people may always be extremely youthful, vibrant and fabulous, whatever age they are.

Same here, have always felt older than I am (while looking younger, oh the cognitive dissonance!). But right now I feel great. I wish I could stay this age forever...

Quote:I am certain that at any given age you possess levels of epic fabulousness to which I can only aspire.

[Image: girl_dance.gif]


Quote:Incidentally, I had not encountered "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry" before, but I guess it may be more common currency than I thought. As a theological position, it seems roughly on a level with "Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten" - but sadly not ironic.)

Yeah, I haven't either, but luckily I am not really exposed to religious crap. This being said, if that would make Jesus (or even those who believe in him) cry, I'll gladly turn gay, just to spite him.

The sad thing is, there are people who actually believe this... of course, those are the same people who believe they're assigned their very own guardian stalker angel, that watches over them and protects them from tripping and getting a nasty boo-boo, so they would eat just about anything up...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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22-02-2013, 12:15 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
I find it amusing, as Jesus didn't say a single thing in the Bible about gays - he did, however, warn people not to judge other people.

Christian priorities are not logical.
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22-02-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
"I dislike it when people describe certain animal behaviour as (born that
way) homosexuality and then try to equate it to human homosexuality."

But...if you're not a homosexual, how could you have any strong views about homosexuality? Consider
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22-02-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(22-02-2013 12:15 AM)The Talking Goat Wrote:  I find it amusing, as Jesus didn't say a single thing in the Bible about gays - he did, however, warn people not to judge other people.

Christian priorities are not logical.


As far as I have observed (keep in mind, I have to totally rely on the testimony of others, there're few christians in my parts) it seems that for the religious, particularly Christians, it's a matter of "Doctrine over Deity", the bible says sleeping with a man like you would a woman is an abomination; therefore, they have their justification, their deity comes second.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-02-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(22-02-2013 12:52 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(22-02-2013 12:15 AM)The Talking Goat Wrote:  I find it amusing, as Jesus didn't say a single thing in the Bible about gays - he did, however, warn people not to judge other people.

Christian priorities are not logical.


As far as I have observed (keep in mind, I have to totally rely on the testimony of others, there're few christians in my parts) it seems that for the religious, particularly Christians, it's a matter of "Doctrine over Deity", the bible says sleeping with a man like you would a woman is an abomination; therefore, they have their justification, their deity comes second.
I think it's a matter of justifying their own beliefs if they can. It always bothered me that my church was so anti-gay; after all, they never mentioned heterosexuals sleeping around or people who got divorced, and the Bible is against those things too. And why would a god make gays in the first place, unless that god was sadistic and just wanted to burn them in hell? Weird.
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22-02-2013, 10:18 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(11-02-2013 07:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  I dislike it when people describe certain animal behaviour as (born that way) homosexuality and then try to equate it to human homosexuality.

It demeans the amorous, committed homosexuality of humans - who are not simply copulating out of boredom or stroking/grooming the genitalia of a fellow member of their species for social hierarchy gains, or ignorantly experimenting and mimicking heterosexual behaviour for practice, etc. as animals do.

Now, if the ''appeal to nature'' argument for a wide, universal definition of homosexuality that encompasses any behaviour which merely looks like homosexuality IS to accepted, then in that case, heterosexual male prison in-mates who copulate or masturbate with other males are, by definition, equally homosexuals. And bi-sexuals are also, therefore, simply occasional/intermittent homosexuals. Not born that way at all.
The fact of the matter is that humans are animals.

This means that we share the same traits, whether it be mentally or physically.

We all shit, eat, sleep, fornicate, masturbate, dream, fight, and strive for pleasure in life.

People are born gay, it is a proven fact and you would be unwise to say that it isn't.

I don't and I never will see why the bible and other holy books get into sex so much, as if it is a bad thing.

Sex is healthy and good for you, love is healthy and good for you, masturbation is healthy and good for you.

All of these things make a human happy, maybe you should try them. Thumbsup
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22-02-2013, 11:16 PM
"Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
The animal argument is a direct answer to anyone who claims that homosexuality is "against nature." Animals practicing it regularly is clear evidence it is perfectly natural.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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26-02-2013, 04:01 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(22-02-2013 11:16 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  The animal argument is a direct answer to anyone who claims that homosexuality is "against nature." Animals practicing it regularly is clear evidence it is perfectly natural.
Animals practice pedophilia and incest, is that clear evidence that pedophilia and incest are perfectly natural too? Suppose a brother and sister one of who is sterile, want to get it on, should we look down on them or prosecute them if they do? Personally I don't care what gays do. I just think that it is a bad argument that because homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom thats justifies not considering it a taboo.
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