"Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
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27-02-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
...So does masturbation....When you think about it what doesn't make Jesus cry?. Fucker needs to man the fuck up. Fuckin crybaby...
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28-02-2013, 02:19 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2013 03:00 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(27-02-2013 02:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am saying that the critic in that conversation is incorrect. It is ordinary behavior, it is just not the majority.

The point is really that the critic needs a better, clearer argument. A more honest one.

Yes the critics argument is bad, but it is pointless to counter a bad argument with another bad argument. No one will be presuaded.

A persuasive response might be: "In the animal kingdom a certain precentage of the population is homosexual so it is in accordance with nature that in the human population a certain precentage of humans will be homosexual."

This response by an advocate is better because it uses nature/natural in the same way as the critic. It actually has a chance at persuading a critic.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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28-02-2013, 02:40 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(27-02-2013 07:09 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 02:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As an intellectual excercise I will attempt to put forth a valid argument against homosexuality.
1. It is good for society if all members can procreate with someone who they love.
2. Homosexuals cannot procreate with the people they love.
Therefore heterosexuality is more preferrable to society than homosexuality.
What evidence do you have to support the first premise?

I do not have any evidence to support the first premise. However I do not believe you have any evidence to show that it isn't true. The first premise is an opinion that is neither demonstrably true or demonstrably false.

Now the argument is valid because the conclusion does follow from the premises. If both premises were facts, the argument would be very strong. But premise 1 is not a fact but just an opinion. Thus if you agree with premise 1 you should find the argument presuasive. If you disagree, the argument fails to be presuasive. A common error some make is they let the conclusion cloud their judgement on the validity of one of the premises. I wonder how many of you, I you were not privey to this thread and were exposed to only premise 1 in isolation, would have agreed with it.

Consider the following premise in isolation.
Premise: It is good for society if all adult members can engage in sex.
Do you agree with this premise? Now consider the following argument.

Premise 1: It is good for society if all adult members can engage in sex.
Premise 2: An impotent person cannot engage in sex.
Therefore society should have preferance of sexual potency over sexual impotence.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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28-02-2013, 02:41 AM
"Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
Heywood, what is your position on the issue and why (assuming it has not already been stated indirectly)?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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28-02-2013, 02:54 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
For point 2 it could be argued. There is a risk of over population. Homosexuals can't procreate so don't add to overpopulation. Therefore homosexulity is benificial to society.
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28-02-2013, 03:08 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(28-02-2013 02:41 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Heywood, what is your position on the issue and why (assuming it has not already been stated indirectly)?
My positions are inconsequential. What is important is that you atheists learn to think and reason well which I hope will give you the necessary tools to realize that the real truth lies in theism.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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28-02-2013, 03:41 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(28-02-2013 03:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 02:41 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Heywood, what is your position on the issue and why (assuming it has not already been stated indirectly)?
My positions are inconsequential. What is important is that you atheists learn to think and reason well which I hope will give you the necessary tools to realize that the real truth lies in theism.

So the real truth lies in the lack of evidence. Okay, thanks for that. I'm done here... Drinking Beverage

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28-02-2013, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2013 04:53 AM by Vosur.)
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do not have any evidence to support the first premise. However I do not believe you have any evidence to show that it isn't true. The first premise is an opinion that is neither demonstrably true or demonstrably false.
I doesn't matter whether or not I have evidence to show that it isn't true, because I'm not the one who has the burden of proof.

(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now the argument is valid because the conclusion does follow from the premises. If both premises were facts, the argument would be very strong. But premise 1 is not a fact but just an opinion.
Not at all, it only means that the argument is logically sound. For it to possess any validity, its premises have to be supported by evidence.

(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Thus if you agree with premise 1 you should find the argument presuasive. If you disagree, the argument fails to be presuasive. A common error some make is they let the conclusion cloud their judgement on the validity of one of the premises.
Both the persuasiveness of an argument as well as anyone's (dis)agreement with said argument's premises are entirely irrelevant to its validity. What matters is whether or not the argument's premises have been substantiated with evidence and whether or not its conclusion follows from the formerly mentioned premises. Your argument merely fulfills the latter criteria and possesses no validity as such.

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28-02-2013, 05:02 AM
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(28-02-2013 03:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What is important is that you atheists learn to think and reason well which I hope will give you the necessary tools to realize that the real truth lies in theism.



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28-02-2013, 08:03 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2013 08:11 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: "Gay marriage makes Jesus cry"
(28-02-2013 04:38 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do not have any evidence to support the first premise. However I do not believe you have any evidence to show that it isn't true. The first premise is an opinion that is neither demonstrably true or demonstrably false.
I doesn't matter whether or not I have evidence to show that it isn't true, because I'm not the one who has the burden of proof.

(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now the argument is valid because the conclusion does follow from the premises. If both premises were facts, the argument would be very strong. But premise 1 is not a fact but just an opinion.
Not at all, it only means that the argument is logically sound. For it to possess any validity, its premises have to be supported by evidence.

(28-02-2013 02:40 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Thus if you agree with premise 1 you should find the argument presuasive. If you disagree, the argument fails to be presuasive. A common error some make is they let the conclusion cloud their judgement on the validity of one of the premises.
Both the persuasiveness of an argument as well as anyone's (dis)agreement with said argument's premises are entirely irrelevant to its validity. What matters is whether or not the argument's premises have been substantiated with evidence and whether or not its conclusion follows from the formerly mentioned premises. Your argument merely fulfills the latter criteria and possesses no validity as such.
Vosur, You are mistaken about what a valid argument is. Here, watch this short video and it will educate you on what is a valid argument.




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