Gender vs. Sex
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20-02-2014, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2014 07:04 PM by PoolBoyG.)
Rainbow Gender vs. Sex
This is my view:

Gender and sex are used interchangeably, but are two different things.

Sex- is purely biological. There are male sex organs, female sex organs, and a variation of both. There's a limited number of different sexes possible.

Gender- is purely a social/cultural construct. Gender is comprised by ones clothing, mannerisms, speech, habits, etc. Usually, gender has been forced onto a given sex. example. males must be of the masculine gender - low voice, short hair, pants, no make up, physical, aggressive, dominate in relationships, etc. Gender has been defined and redefined, differing between regions of the world, and timelines, making the numbers of genders nearly "infinite". It's completely arbitrary. Example, one gender can be defined by wearing big hats, while the other small ones, and another no hat at all. And one of those genders could be forced onto a sex (whether through overt aggression, or subversive aggression).

Thoughts?
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20-02-2014, 07:38 PM
RE: Gender vs. Sex
That's the current consensus in gender studies, there used to be a apparent causal relation between sex -> gender -> sexuality. But that notion has been debunked as you say and though those concepts are related, they are in more of a landscape way than a linear way, allowing any possible combination and co-determination (techno-bodies, gender queer, etc).

It's nice to have more liberty in that aspect of our identities, but it does makes relationships more complex and hard to define, which in turn makes social organization more difficult. So we may have some political juggling ahead thanks to this much diversity Tongue

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20-02-2014, 08:16 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2014 08:28 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Gender vs. Sex
Gender/sex, its all a little Semantic salad in my head, maybe sex should just be used for describing chromosomes XY, XX or Hermaphrodite (47XXY, 46XX/46XY......).

A: Genetic conditions alone gives you the "sex" identity.
B: Genetically coded desire template from conception, along with environmental experiences results in a particular target range for lust and ones personal sexuality niche.

Roll the A&B dice together and your have a "Gender" Identity (*Used subjectively )

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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20-02-2014, 08:58 PM
RE: Gender vs. Sex
(20-02-2014 07:00 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Sex- is purely biological. There are male sex organs, female sex organs, and a variation of both. There's a limited number of different sexes possible.

Sex is biological but it extends beyond external genitalia and reproductive organs. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species, the physical differences literally extend right to the bone. Forensic anthropologists can determine the sex of the deceased from skeletal fragments.

Quote:Gender- is purely a social/cultural construct.

No that is an exaggeration. Gender does have a cultural component but it is not purely a social construction. Gender roles are based on sex.

Quote:Usually, gender has been forced onto a given sex. example. males must be of the masculine gender - low voice, short hair, pants, no make up, physical, aggressive, dominate in relationships, etc.

You are mixing cultural practice with biological fact here. Hairstyle and fashion are cultural artifacts but voice, fat distribution and musculature are not.

Men--on average--have deeper voices than women and are more muscular because they produce more androgens than females. Part of the process of MtF transitioning for transexuals is the regular administration of spironolactone (to inhibit the effects of androgens) and estrogens (to feminise the distribution of fat and skin texture).

In human evolutionary history there was no person to "force gender onto a given sex". Who do you think was imposing gender roles when Homo sapiens evolved? Humans are primates and we inherited the basic sex roles from our non-human primate ancestors. Evolution imposed the sexes different social roles and despite all of our sophisticated culture those basic roles persist because they have a genetic origin.

Quote:Gender has been defined and redefined, differing between regions of the world, and timelines, making the numbers of genders nearly "infinite". It's completely arbitrary.

Again this is hyperbole and you can only post stuff like this if you are completely unfamiliar with the biological sciences. Male and female brains are different. Search my posts for supportive citations.
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21-02-2014, 04:29 PM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2014 05:30 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Gender vs. Sex
(20-02-2014 07:00 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  This is my view:

Gender and sex are used interchangeably, but are two different things.

Sex- is purely biological. There are male sex organs, female sex organs, and a variation of both. There's a limited number of different sexes possible.

Gender- is purely a social/cultural construct. Gender is comprised by ones clothing, mannerisms, speech, habits, etc. Usually, gender has been forced onto a given sex. example. males must be of the masculine gender - low voice, short hair, pants, no make up, physical, aggressive, dominate in relationships, etc. Gender has been defined and redefined, differing between regions of the world, and timelines, making the numbers of genders nearly "infinite". It's completely arbitrary. Example, one gender can be defined by wearing big hats, while the other small ones, and another no hat at all. And one of those genders could be forced onto a sex (whether through overt aggression, or subversive aggression).

Thoughts?

double post. I think.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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21-02-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: Gender vs. Sex
(21-02-2014 04:29 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 07:00 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  This is my view:

Gender and sex are used interchangeably, but are two different things.

Sex- is purely biological. There are male sex organs, female sex organs, and a variation of both. There's a limited number of different sexes possible.

Gender- is purely a social/cultural construct. Gender is comprised by ones clothing, mannerisms, speech, habits, etc. Usually, gender has been forced onto a given sex. example. males must be of the masculine gender - low voice, short hair, pants, no make up, physical, aggressive, dominate in relationships, etc. Gender has been defined and redefined, differing between regions of the world, and timelines, making the numbers of genders nearly "infinite". It's completely arbitrary. Example, one gender can be defined by wearing big hats, while the other small ones, and another no hat at all. And one of those genders could be forced onto a sex (whether through overt aggression, or subversive aggression).

Thoughts?

My daughter is transgender, male to female. She says has felt female from the time she can remember. My husband, who is a pretty masculine type o' guy, took her out when she was little and did all sorts of male stuff. Throwing a ball around, wrestling, toy trains and car. We tried all kinds of sports, all kinds of male "stuff" to make her a more boyish kind of kid. Fishing, hiking, hunting, football, basketball, kick boxing. Nothing had any effect on her. She was just a "she".

The latest research seems to be that during the first five weeks of pregnancy there are certain key genes with switches that get turned on or off with the release of the male or female hormones in the womb, depending on the chromosomes. Apparently sometimes things don't work quite right. Sometimes there are outward physical signs that don't align with the babies chromosomes. Some people are intersex, that is they have both male and female sexual organs. I think this happens in about 1 in 8000 births. Though there can be a spectrum as to how severe it can be. Some males can have fairly developed ovaries and females can have quite pronounced gonads.

There are also girls born with no vagina. It's called MRKH syndrome and happens in about 1 in 4,500 female births. Some girls are born with no uterus. Don't know what that's called.

Hey, stuff happens.

So with transgender people much of the research indicates that the child is born with a brain wired to be female though the child is male, particularly in the area known as the putamen, a part of the basal ganglia structure of the brain. This seems to be female in the transgender female brains. There seems to be more male to female transgender people and some scientists think it's because we start out more female in the womb than male.

So. My daughter's brain is female, her body was male (she started taking female hormones two years ago) but she is attracted to guys. Some transgender females are attracted to other girls which makes them lesbian.

Who you are attracted to and what your gender is are two different things. It's sort of like some men are very much attracted to red heads others to blonds. It's kind of like that but deeper and more complicated.

Gives you somthin' to think about doesn't it.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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