Generalizing
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03-08-2012, 04:10 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 03:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  1) Is that a black and white kinda thing regarding exhaustive knowledge or is it a scale? Meaning... do you need to suddenly have all knowledge or does each scientific discovery that adds to the collective body of knowledge gradually chip away at your resolve?

I do mean, exhaustive knowledge. Knowledge of everything that does and does not exist.
And as far as scientific discovery chipping away at my resolve..
That would be kind of naive of me to lose belief in something outside of nature just by looking at nature. It seems to have the opposite effect on me.

(03-08-2012 03:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  2) I guess you must have already dismissed what others would take as obvious e.g. the resurrection was invented (or this cult would have been dismissed at the time like all the others) for promotional / team-building purposes, so I won't bother with that or the lack of evidence for it or the contradictions about it between the gospels. Instead, let's accept for a minute that it happened. So what? It seemed to happen a lot in those days (all the graves opened etc.). How does coming back to life prove divinity? And so much for dying for dem sins... no death... no save!

I consider the possibility of the resurrection as being invented or fraudulent. But I don't dismiss it's validity entirely until I get all the available facts.

So your question - "How does coming back to life prove divinity?"
If someone claimed to be God, was brutally slaughtered to death, and then just got back up after being dead for three days, I would be hard-pressed to disagree with him.

"No death... no save!"
If he died and came back to life, why do you consider that not dying?
Is it not fair because he's God? Maybe that's why he chose to do it to himself instead of a human. That only makes sense.. Dodgy

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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03-08-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:03 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  Of course, it is then a quote.

It is honest to change someone's words if you note it.

Yeah, maybe if you're worried about swearing do the little *** thing. That's the standard way of doing it and it leaves a clear visual clue that the quote has been changed. Now I have to run away before Chas kills me Big Grin

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03-08-2012, 04:14 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 03:18 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence for the resurrection. The unverified stories in the Bible are not evidence.

Was that your attempt at convincing me Chas? Laughat

No, that will only cause a rational person to doubt the story.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-08-2012, 04:18 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 03:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  Whoops. Missed this bit. Ideas... *who cares what God likes*? *Forget* that he hates homosexual behaviour. What do *you* think about it?

I'm not sure what you were doing in your post here..
I'm just going to address this one point.

Essentially you are saying that I should forget about what God cares about or hates and stick with my own opinion.

Being as how I believe in his existence, and you surely do not, our views are going to be on opposite ends on this issue.
But I'll go ahead with this anyhow Dodgy

If God created the universe and governs the movements and reactions of every molecule, then it seems to me that this god knows a bit more than I do about reality.
I myself fail at cooking spaghetti, let alone trying to create a universe.
I do care about the morals of the creator of them.
I'm not sorry if you see me as illogical on this issue, because I don't dare think that I have a chance pulling our perspectives together.

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03-08-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:18 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  If God created the universe and governs the movements and reactions of every molecule, then it seems to me that this god knows a bit more than I do about reality.

The brain consists of molecules. So you're amongst the "no free will" brigade? But the bible says that man has free will.
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03-08-2012, 04:32 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:18 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  Whoops. Missed this bit. Ideas... *who cares what God likes*? *Forget* that he hates homosexual behaviour. What do *you* think about it?

I'm not sure what you were doing in your post here..
I'm just going to address this one point.

Essentially you are saying that I should forget about what God cares about or hates and stick with my own opinion.

Are you or are you not separate from God? Does God allow you to have your own opinion or not?

Hey believe it or not we're human too, sorry I couldn't be the perfect atheist opponent guy and only politely disagree with you. Just this once I lost it with you because this is really a *stupid* thing.

What's my game? What shit am I trying to pull, what's my agenda???? Ultimately I wanna serve you to Satan on a plate but in the meantime I'll settle for encouraging a bit of tolerance. Dodgy
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03-08-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 03:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Oh incidentally nice edit to my post Wink Can't bear to swear even if you're quoting hey?

The fuck up's with that shit? What kind of goddam pussy does that?

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03-08-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Oh incidentally nice edit to my post Wink Can't bear to swear even if you're quoting hey?

The fuck up's with that shit? What kind of goddam pussy does that?

A theist pussy?

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03-08-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Oh incidentally nice edit to my post Wink Can't bear to swear even if you're quoting hey?

The freak up's with that junk? What kind of silly person does that?

I think I've just found a new past-time Smile Crap. Now all that moralizing about how it's wrong is gonna come back and bite me in the ass.

Ideas... take it easy. You just inadvertently pushed a button of mine with the gay thing...
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03-08-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: Generalizing
(03-08-2012 04:10 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 03:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  1) Is that a black and white kinda thing regarding exhaustive knowledge or is it a scale? Meaning... do you need to suddenly have all knowledge or does each scientific discovery that adds to the collective body of knowledge gradually chip away at your resolve?

I do mean, exhaustive knowledge. Knowledge of everything that does and does not exist.
And as far as scientific discovery chipping away at my resolve..
That would be kind of naive of me to lose belief in something outside of nature just by looking at nature. It seems to have the opposite effect on me.

(03-08-2012 03:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  2) I guess you must have already dismissed what others would take as obvious e.g. the resurrection was invented (or this cult would have been dismissed at the time like all the others) for promotional / team-building purposes, so I won't bother with that or the lack of evidence for it or the contradictions about it between the gospels. Instead, let's accept for a minute that it happened. So what? It seemed to happen a lot in those days (all the graves opened etc.). How does coming back to life prove divinity? And so much for dying for dem sins... no death... no save!

I consider the possibility of the resurrection as being invented or fraudulent. But I don't dismiss it's validity entirely until I get all the available facts.

So your question - "How does coming back to life prove divinity?"
If someone claimed to be God, was brutally slaughtered to death, and then just got back up after being dead for three days, I would be hard-pressed to disagree with him.

"No death... no save!"
If he died and came back to life, why do you consider that not dying?
Is it not fair because he's God? Maybe that's why he chose to do it to himself instead of a human. That only makes sense.. Dodgy

sense?!?!?! That makes sense?

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