Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
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22-06-2013, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2013 07:14 AM by Rahn127.)
Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
For children who grow up with the idea of Santa Claus on Christmas, it's a very real belief. Your parents, aunts & uncles, grandparents, other children, literally everyone you know and trust tells you that Santa is real and this tale is reinforced every year for you as a child.

At some point, maybe around the age of 10 or so, the truth comes out. It's disheartening at first, but now you're on the other side of the curtain. You're on the grownups side. You get to eat at the big table and discover that adults lie about a variety of things. Not because they are trying to be mean, but because the lie is the first step in creating belief, creating magic.

When it comes to Genesis & Noah, they both are as far fetched as Santa bringing presents to all the kids in the world on one night with a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, but you buy in to it because those stories are reinforced not once a year, but in some cases 2-3 times a week from people that you trust. From your parents, your relatives, friends and the guy speaking in front of all of those people every sunday.

You have been conditioned to believe impossible, unbelievable stories just as you were conditioned to believe in Santa Claus.

The only problem is that the other adults in this picture are heavily reinforcing the belief day in and day out. Your teachers, your coaches, your police officers, your politicians, and even your president. Everyone that you see in authority are all reinforcing the far fetched tales written in a book.

Well, almost everyone.

There are those among us that observe the world rationally and critically.
We were taught that we must justify our beliefs. We must have sound reasons for why we hold something to be true. We must have evidence to support our claims. We also must be open to change when new evidence arises giving us a more accurate view of how something works. By doing this we are more likely to find the truth. We become less gullible and more skeptical.

These people are your scientists, your doctors, your researchers, your biologists, your chemists, your astronomers, your astronauts, your engineers, your architects, your builders and if you're lucky enough, they are also your family & friends. You can also find them in your schools, as your bus driver, your plumber, your grocery store clerk, your librarian and so many other fields.

If you are interested in discovering a pathway to truth, turn to science.
Science justifies with evidence the things we hold to be true.
It is a way to evaluate the truthfulness of a claim.
The more you know, the less you will believe.

Lastly I want you to evaluate these two claims.

1. I created a full grown adult elephant out of thin air.
2. I put the full grown adult elephant in my car and together we drove to the store.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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22-06-2013, 06:29 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
(22-06-2013 06:15 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For children who grow up with the idea of Santa Claus on Christmas, it's a very real belief. Your parents, aunts & uncles, grandparents, other children, literally everyone you know and trust tells you that Santa is real and this tale is reinforced every year for you as a child.

At some point, maybe around the age of 10 or so, the truth comes out. It's disheartening at first, but now you're on the other side of the curtain. You're on the grownups side. You get to eat at the big table and discover that adults lie about a variety of things. Not because they are trying to be mean, but because the lie is the first step in creating belief, creating magic.

When it comes to Genesis & Noah, they both are as far fetched as Santa bringing presents to all the kids in the world on one night with a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, but you buy in to it because those stories are reinforced not once a year, but in some cases 2-3 times a week from people that you trust. From your parents, your relatives, friends and the guy speaking in front of all of those people every sunday.

You have been conditioned to believe impossible, unbelievable stories just as you were conditioned to believe in Santa Claus.

The only problem is that the other adults in this picture are heavily reinforcing the belief day in and day out. Your teachers, your coaches, your police officers, your politicians, and even your president. Everyone that you see in authority are all reinforcing the far fetched tales written in book.

Well, almost everyone.

There are those among us that observe the world rationally and critically.
We were taught that we must justify our beliefs. We must have sound reasons for why we hold something to be true. We must have evidence to support our claims. We also must be open to change when new evidence arises giving us a more accurate view of how something works. By doing this we are more likely to find the truth. We become less gullible and more skeptical.

These people are your scientists, your doctors, your researchers, your biologists, your chemists, your astronomers, your astronauts, your engineers, your architects, your builders and if you're lucky enough, they are also your family & friends. You can also find them in your schools, as your bus driver, your plumber, your grocery store clerk, your librarian and so many other fields.

If you are interested in discovering a pathway to truth, turn to science.
Science justifies with evidence the things we hold to be true.
It is a way to evaluate the truthfulness of a claim.
The more you know, the less you will believe.

Lastly I want you to evaluate these two claims.

1. I created a full grown adult elephant out of thin air.
2. I put the full grown adult elephant in my car and together we drove to the store.

I nodded throughout your post and then I got to the two questions at the end and all I could think of was Groucho Marx.

"I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How he got into my pajamas I'll never know!"

But yeah, that's how it works the reinforcement of the absurd.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-06-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
Nice post. As far fetched as Noah's story is, I think people want to believe it because it's an endearing tale about an old bearded guy saving a bunch of animals. It's really not terribly different than Santa Claus. Gullible people who buy into the nonsense are somehow viewed as virtuous with their child-like innocence in tact. The rest of us (anyone who spends a few minutes thinking about the plausibility) are the party-poopers.


1. Show me evidence of you creating an elephant.
2. Damn, you's gots a big car.

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22-06-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
Rahn127,may i post this on my fb wall?

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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22-06-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
Jeffasaurus is skeptical of my claim from the first moment he read it. Why is that ?

If I had said, "I made a peanut butter & jelly sandwich" he could still ask for evidence, but this claim is different than me creating an elephant.
Bread, peanut butter & jelly are all things that exist and it's common for people to make this kind of sandwich so this claim is very plausible.

Elephants exist, but creating anything let alone a living adult animal out of thin air has never been done and the only way we can even imagine that happening is something we call magic because it defies all the laws of physics in this universe.

As the old saying goes "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

You may ask, "Well why shouldn't we simply take your word for it. Why shouldn't we trust what you have said until your claim is proven false" ?

Answer - Because that kind of gullibility can separate you from your money and from loved ones. It can separate you from a good education and true discovery about the world you live in.
It can take you to places that you may not be able to escape from (cult compounds). It can lead you to trust people with your children that you normally wouldn't. It can lead you to commit heinous crimes in the guise of doing something "good"

It's all about how easily you can be manipulated, how easily you can be fooled.

We all simply want people to justify their beliefs, to have as many true beliefs and as few false beliefs as possible.
If you care about the truth, then care enough to justify it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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22-06-2013, 08:29 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
(22-06-2013 07:51 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Rahn127,may i post this on my fb wall?

Yes, you may and so can anyone else if they so choose.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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22-06-2013, 08:48 AM
Re: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
Did you also put a giant slab of ribs upon your car.

The idea that disturbs me about the Noah tale is that they sign the praises of God and Noah in saving Animals in those kids songs; while that's about killing all save 8 humans in the world.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-06-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
Who is this "you" of which you speak?

And I got this thing, right? I call it a "wave condenser," which collates the wave function of matter and redistributes it into my locality. And! It's bio/nanotech. I implanted it in my eye. So I can conjure shit "out of thin air." Now what? Big Grin

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22-06-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
I never believed in Santa Claus. I was supposed to believe but it never sounded like a thing that wasn't made up. I don't know why I wasn't tricked into believing Santa, but I never did.

But what I was sure to do was to pretend to believe in Santa because I wanted to keep getting the extra presents. We I was older I came to realize that pretending to believe in Santa did not get me extra presents, it just meant one of the presents from my mom and dad said "From: Santa" on it instead of "From: Mom and Dad".

...
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22-06-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Genesis, Noah & Santa Claus
(22-06-2013 08:25 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Elephants exist, but creating anything let alone a living adult animal out of thin air has never been done and the only way we can even imagine that happening is something we call magic because it defies all the laws of physics in this universe.

As a huge fan of magic from a very young age, I feel this must be addressed.

There is known phenomena.
There is unknown phenomena.
There is phenomena known to one (or a few) while simultaneously unknown to another (or others).
This is about knowledge and who knows it.

Ever wonder why so many magicians... also happen to be atheist? They know; they create belief. Just for you.

There is no belief. Imagination is pretend.

You know what magicians call magic, don't you? Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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