Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
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29-12-2014, 08:35 AM
Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
"The man has now become like one of us" (Genesis 3:22) is a quote attributed to god in the Genesis myth, but I was wondering how the word "us" is actually being used here.

I realized how this myth can be interpreted not as a choice that a man makes to disobey god, but as a warning from the writers of the myth, the priests, scribes and the educated elite of that era.

Do not try to seek real knowledge, because "you will become like one of us".

Is this an actual call out to those that would see past their myth and realize that they were not telling the truth?

It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

They would know that these tales were created for controlling the ignorant masses, but you also wouldn't be allowed into their scholarly pantheon.

Best to believe and stay in your blissful garden of ignorance.

So what do you think?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-12-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
Not sure I agree.

The Creation stuff evolved from earlier myths / folklore. Explanatory stuff in times of overwhelming ignorance. Quite possibly starting as camp-fire story - aborigine-style - in our hunter-gatherer days... born of animism / agency.

There were many gods then... pre-Abraham's conversion to / invention of monotheism. So, it just seems to be a reference to the pantheon, as you say. Acquisition of knowledge = god-like / goddess-like.

The mass-control stuff came later as peoples began to settle, develop agriculture and build towns. That's when the scribes and priests had to start flexing their muscles in order to manage / organise individuals into governable roles-based societies.


Roles-based societies require... roles, rules, tools and fools Big Grin

Or something like that.

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29-12-2014, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2014 09:34 AM by Free.)
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  "The man has now become like one of us" (Genesis 3:22) is a quote attributed to god in the Genesis myth, but I was wondering how the word "us" is actually being used here.

I realized how this myth can be interpreted not as a choice that a man makes to disobey god, but as a warning from the writers of the myth, the priests, scribes and the educated elite of that era.

Do not try to seek real knowledge, because "you will become like one of us".

Is this an actual call out to those that would see past their myth and realize that they were not telling the truth?

It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

They would know that these tales were created for controlling the ignorant masses, but you also wouldn't be allowed into their scholarly pantheon.

Best to believe and stay in your blissful garden of ignorance.

So what do you think?

Right off the bat, in the very first verse of Genesis, in Gen 1:1, you will see the following:

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

However, when we look at the words closely in the ancient Hebrew, the word "God" is written as "Elohim," which is actually plural. Therefore...

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth."

The Jews find this to be extremely embarrassing and prefer to not even discuss it. They cannot change the text one iota as per their beliefs, and therefore they are stuck with it.

This is precisely why you see in Gen 1:26 - And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

Even in Gen 1:26 the word "God" is again "Elohim," plural meaning "the gods." Hence ...

Gen 1:26 And the gods said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

The problem the Jews have with all this is obvious; they proclaim monotheism yet their most ancient religious record clearly demonstrates polytheism, and it does it right on the very first verse of Gen 1:1.

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29-12-2014, 09:28 AM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
This goes along with Genesis 1:26, I believe.

I addressed it here.

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29-12-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

Interesting, but no. Gnosis wasn't invented yet. Tongue

The proposition seems to forbid the conclusion, If as you contend, scripture was composed by a shadowy cabal behind the curtain for the purpose of thought control, there is zero profit in letting anybody know there is a curtain.

More likely explanation is early Jewish pantheism.

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29-12-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
So you think God is addressing the choirs of angels in these verses, KC?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-12-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  "The man has now become like one of us" (Genesis 3:22) is a quote attributed to god in the Genesis myth, but I was wondering how the word "us" is actually being used here.

A fascinating little leftover from polytheism. Goes well with the bit where god lies and the serpent tells the truth to pretty thoroughly trash any notion of original sin.

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29-12-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 09:45 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

Interesting, but no. Gnosis wasn't invented yet. Tongue

The proposition seems to forbid the conclusion, If as you contend, scripture was composed by a shadowy cabal behind the curtain for the purpose of thought control, there is zero profit in letting anybody know there is a curtain.

More likely explanation is early Jewish pantheism.

I suppose I can be led to believe it is a sinister conspiracy at some level. It's just hard for me to comprehend the motivation of the J&E source. Was it simply at the behest of the ruling class, the King and priests of that time?

It sure would have been interesting to sit in on how that conversation would have transpired. I envision it like a high-profile marketing campaign:

King: I need something that will pacify the peasants!

Scribes: We can just use some re-manufactured myths, the Babylonians have some great ones!

Priests: Great idea! We'll just alter them to include some Jewish morality tale with our gods plugged into the myth instead of the Babylonian gods.

King: Sounds good, just make it say that I was god's right hand in your myth.

Priests and Scribes: No problem, we can also tell the peasants to give part of their income to the temple after they pay taxes right?

King: Yeah, no problem. It's so much easier to appeal to the peasant's superstitions than to go around enforcing this crazy shit, but we can definitely crack some heads if they don't want to believe.

Priests and Scribes: (nodding in ascent and smiling)
Knights who say NI!Yes

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-12-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 09:21 AM)Free Wrote:  
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  "The man has now become like one of us" (Genesis 3:22) is a quote attributed to god in the Genesis myth, but I was wondering how the word "us" is actually being used here.

I realized how this myth can be interpreted not as a choice that a man makes to disobey god, but as a warning from the writers of the myth, the priests, scribes and the educated elite of that era.

Do not try to seek real knowledge, because "you will become like one of us".

Is this an actual call out to those that would see past their myth and realize that they were not telling the truth?

It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

They would know that these tales were created for controlling the ignorant masses, but you also wouldn't be allowed into their scholarly pantheon.

Best to believe and stay in your blissful garden of ignorance.

So what do you think?

Right off the bat, in the very first verse of Genesis, in Gen 1:1, you will see the following:

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

However, when we look at the words closely in the ancient Hebrew, the word "God" is written as "Elohim," which is actually plural. Therefore...

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth."

The Jews find this to be extremely embarrassing and prefer to not even discuss it. They cannot change the text one iota as per their beliefs, and therefore they are stuck with it.

This is precisely why you see in Gen 1:26 - And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

Even in Gen 1:26 the word "God" is again "Elohim," plural meaning "the gods." Hence ...

Gen 1:26 And the gods said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

The problem the Jews have with all this is obvious; they proclaim monotheism yet their most ancient religious record clearly demonstrates polytheism, and it does it right on the very first verse of Gen 1:1.
Despite all of the bible's redactions, their polytheism still makes it out of it's pages. I especially like the part in the bible at 2 Kings 3:27 where the Moabite god Chemosh spanks YHWH in a battle.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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