Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
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24-11-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:30 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-11-2017 06:21 PM)Alchemy Begins Wrote:  Correct, Elohim is not the name of God, it is an achieved level of mastery. It would be more correct to say 'The Elohim' as in a group of achieve individuals. Similar to one saying the Generals or the Professors. The Elohim are those men and women who have been through our same level of existence as we a doing on this Earth. They 'passed this mortal class' and continued to the next stages of progression until they to have gained a mastery of the knowledge that is required to do as God's or the Elohim do. Understanding that there are many gods is different from the acknowledgement and worship of the God who is our Father. A brief parallel as, I have many men in my life who are all fathers, yet they are not my Dad, and he is the only one I give my Fathers day card to. .

Do you have any evidence for any of this? Why should your interpretation be accepted over the simpler explanation that this started out as just another imaginary pantheon?

I do. It is the same body of evidence you use to prove to an outsider that you love your wife, parents, children, country or anything else. It is not something you can prove to them, regardless of what you show or tell them. It is something they must experience for themselves..
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24-11-2017, 06:57 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:42 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(24-11-2017 06:21 PM)Alchemy Begins Wrote:  Correct, Elohim is not the name of God, it is an achieved level of mastery. It would be more correct to say 'The Elohim' as in a group of 'achieved individuals'. Similar to one saying the Generals or the Professors. The Elohim are those men and women who have been through our same level of existence as we a doing on this Earth. They 'passed this mortal class' and continued to the next stages of progression until they to have gained a mastery of the knowledge that is required to do as God's or the Elohim do. Understanding that there are many gods is different from the acknowledgement and worship of the God who is our Father. A brief parallel... I have many men in my life who are all 'fathers', yet they are not my Dad, and he is the only one I give my Fathers day card to, similarily to monotheistic form of worship . At the same time this does not negate any other Fathers, 'Fatherhood'.

What the hell are blathering on about? <----This should be read in the best Monty Python-ish voice possible.

Nah. Read it in a Trump voice.

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24-11-2017, 07:06 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2017 07:12 PM by Free.)
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(29-12-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  "The man has now become like one of us" (Genesis 3:22) is a quote attributed to god in the Genesis myth, but I was wondering how the word "us" is actually being used here.

I realized how this myth can be interpreted not as a choice that a man makes to disobey god, but as a warning from the writers of the myth, the priests, scribes and the educated elite of that era.

Do not try to seek real knowledge, because "you will become like one of us".

Is this an actual call out to those that would see past their myth and realize that they were not telling the truth?

It seems like a reasonable point of view to me, the phrase "The man has now become like one of us" is peculiar because it admits that god is not alone, he's part of a pantheon, but it makes more sense when interpreted to mean that the scribes and priests that constructed this myth were simply advising those that don't believe their myth that they would be cast out of their ignorant bliss and become like one of them.

They would know that these tales were created for controlling the ignorant masses, but you also wouldn't be allowed into their scholarly pantheon.

Best to believe and stay in your blissful garden of ignorance.

So what do you think?

It's plural because the Hebrew word for "god" in that section is "Elohim," which means "gods."

Directly from the first verse you see "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," But it actually reads as "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth."

That is why you see, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness."

The Jews hate Genesis for this "indiscretion."

It's evident polytheism.

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24-11-2017, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2017 09:11 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
It's very simple. We know the Hebrews were not monotheistic until after the Exile, when the prophets insisted on it, for some very interesting cultural reasons). The "like us" references the Babylonian pantheon from which Yahweh came. Yahweh had a wife / consort ... proven by archaeology. Her name was Ashera. Abraham (a mythical figure) did not invent monotheism. The Hebrews were monolaterist polytheists. THAT was the covenant. They worship the Babylonian war god. He helps them in battle. The Hebrews were no different AT ALL from the other cultures that surrounded them in the ancient Near East.

As far as "has become like one of us" goes, the Jewish Philosopher Martin Buber, in "Good and Evil" has a pretty good explanation of what that means. Evil (to them) was not disobedience.
In the culture the original myths came from, (Babylon) it was "chaos". "Becoming like us" means (an attempt) to "know" (encompass) BOTH chaos and order. Only the gods could do that. Humans had to make a choice.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid160188

We know for a fact, the Hebrews did not believe in immortality. (Even St. Paul didn't for all ... only the "saved")
Suggesting that "Elohim" are what they thought were 'accomplished" is nothing but a flat out lie. No scholar agrees with this nonsense. All Hebrew shades went to Sheol, (they thought), both good and bad. SHeol is not where Yahweh and the divine beings lived.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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24-11-2017, 07:13 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:50 PM)Alchemy Begins Wrote:  I do. It is the same body of evidence you use to prove to an outsider that you love your wife, parents, children, country or anything else. It is not something you can prove to them, regardless of what you show or tell them. It is something they must experience for themselves.

That is utter bullshit. I see demonstrable evidence of "love" in others based on actions and behaviors that they exhibit. It can also be inferred from mapping brain activity and noting responses to various stimuli. The evidence can be compared to obtain independent confirmation of the conclusion.

It also isn't reasonable to compare the common emotional state that we label "love" with a claim of the existence of some actual entity. Even if I had a personal experience there is nothing to look at to determine that it had any sort of supernatural cause. If you can't provide a way to tell a real cause from a delusion then there's no reason to accept your explanation.

When you can provide a fraction of the level of evidence we have for love in support of your god hypothesis then maybe it will be worth looking at. Until then, not so much.

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24-11-2017, 07:19 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2017 07:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:21 PM)Alchemy Begins Wrote:  
(29-12-2014 09:21 AM)Free Wrote:  Right off the bat, in the very first verse of Genesis, in Gen 1:1, you will see the following:

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

However, when we look at the words closely in the ancient Hebrew, the word "God" is written as "Elohim," which is actually plural. Therefore...

Gen 1:1 - "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth."

The Jews find this to be extremely embarrassing and prefer to not even discuss it. They cannot change the text one iota as per their beliefs, and therefore they are stuck with it.

This is precisely why you see in Gen 1:26 - And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

Even in Gen 1:26 the word "God" is again "Elohim," plural meaning "the gods." Hence ...

Gen 1:26 And the gods said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

The problem the Jews have with all this is obvious; they proclaim monotheism yet their most ancient religious record clearly demonstrates polytheism, and it does it right on the very first verse of Gen 1:1.

Correct, Elohim is not the name of God, it is an achieved level of mastery. It would be more correct to say 'The Elohim' as in a group of 'achieved individuals'. Similar to one saying the Generals or the Professors. The Elohim are those men and women who have been through our same level of existence as we a doing on this Earth. They 'passed this mortal class' and continued to the next stages of progression until they to have gained a mastery of the knowledge that is required to do as God's or the Elohim do. Understanding that there are many gods is different from the acknowledgement and worship of the God who is our Father. A brief parallel... I have many men in my life who are all 'fathers', yet they are not my Dad, and he is the only one I give my Fathers day card to, similarily to monotheistic form of worship . At the same time this does not negate any other Fathers, 'Fatherhood'.

Nope. Absolute nonsense.
The notion of "exaltation" did not enter Hebrew thought for many centuries.
The Elohim was the Council of Babylonian gods. El Elyon was the chief god, and the Father of Yahweh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
They can cook up all the sentimental BS they want. History is history, and we know how it developed, and when.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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24-11-2017, 07:39 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
Really Girly or DLJ...no Genesis songs posted after three pages?
Ohmy
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24-11-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:06 PM)Alchemy Begins Wrote:  
(24-11-2017 01:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

That didn't really explain the "us" though, did it?

Anyway, good luck with the sermon. I'm hoping that you are using Genesis references for and as metaphor.

Would hate to think that you would stoop so low as to lie to children.

Yes

Actually it did. Seeing as you had a difficult time comprehending what you read, I went back to highlight it for you. It will be in blue.

The "where/were" typo threw me for moment but I'm pretty sure that I comprehended that it was a description, no, not even that, more like a definition of god(s)/goddess(es).

I think my post #2 had a better explanation - campfire wisdom i.e. folkloric ignorance.

(24-11-2017 07:39 PM)pablo Wrote:  Really Girly or DLJ...no Genesis songs posted after three pages?
Ohmy

Oops, sorry.




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24-11-2017, 09:11 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 06:42 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  What the hell are you blathering on about? <----This should be read in the best Monty Python-ish voice possible.

Rowan Atkinson

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24-11-2017, 09:23 PM
RE: Genesis-The man has now become like one of us?
(24-11-2017 09:11 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(24-11-2017 06:42 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  What the hell are you blathering on about? <----This should be read in the best Monty Python-ish voice possible.

Rowan Atkinson

Even my religious friends tell me to watch Mr. Bean. Laugh out load

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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