Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
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13-03-2011, 09:06 PM
Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
Just today, I had a discussion in school with a friend who is in many respects smarter than I am. On this issue, I doubt it though. He thinks that the world is controlled by the equivalent of big pharma, and that the majority of scientists believe in genetic engineering even though vast amounts of evidence goes against it. The way I see it is that science is objective, it doesn't care for personal beliefs in the slighest. If a scientist were to believe that germ theory is false because of an inner conviction, he would be laughed out of the room and probably discredited. I don't see how it is any different for something like genetic engineering. If all the evidence was against it, they wouldn't accept it.
What are your opinions on this? Am I wrong?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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13-03-2011, 09:40 PM
 
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
There truly IS a lot of evidence against GMO's (Genetically modified organisms). I have a biotech class and we just finished doing the pro's and con's, and GMO's do have a great deal of down sides, such as super drug resistant bugs, farming monopoly of rich nations/farmers, and some other stuff i can't remember. I'll make sure to get the link for the site we used next time I have class. I mostly support GMO use, though.

But, to be honest, I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.
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13-03-2011, 10:00 PM
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
To try and clarify, I support the use of genetic engineering and my friend doesn't. There are two sides to the his position. First, he believes in a global conspiracy involving almost all scientists. Second, he believes there is alot of evidence against genetic engineering - and just about none for, and he doesn't even support the modification of bacteria to produce hormones and insulin. He also believes that we don't test to see whether GMO's are better than non-GMO's, and that we don't test to see if it will harm people who eat the genetically modified produce. I disagree with him completely, and I wanted to know what you guys thought.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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13-03-2011, 10:03 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2011 10:25 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
There are splits in the scientific community. Often controversial discoveries will have sides where there are scientist not willing to accept a discovery. It's not like scientists don't do this, and it's not like science doesn't occasionally cave in to humanity. Simple case in point I'm intersexed and there's a large number of people who are intersexed, 1 in 8 births are variations of the male/female schema, though often subtle and can be completely disregarded with a lot of lives. The majority of the populace believes that there are males and females. So even though evidence clearly points to gender being a lot more complex of a makeup than chromosome 46, scientists disregard the evidence and consider those outside of the norm as irregularities.

Dogma exists everywhere. Science normally moves on as evidence surfaces but not always.

Edit: I hit post before really making sure it was my desired post. fixed now.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-03-2011, 10:09 PM
 
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
I think something got cut off at the end of your first paragraph.
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13-03-2011, 10:15 PM
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
(13-03-2011 10:03 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  There are splits in the scientific community. Often controversial discoveries will have sides where there are scientist not willing to accept a discovery. It's not like scientists don't do this, and it's not like science doesn't occasionally cave in to humanity. Simple case in point I'm intersexed and there's a large number of people who are intersexed, 1 in 8 births are variations of the male/female schema, though often subtle and can be completely disregarded with a lot of lives. The majority of the populace believes that there are males and females. So even though evidence clearly points to gender being a lot more complex of a makeup than chromosome 46, scientists disregard the evidence and consider those outside of the norm as irregularities. Another entertaining example is the seahorse, due to the fact that.

Dogma exists everywhere. Science normally moves on as evidence surfaces but not always.

I know that there are splits in the Scientific community, it would be strange if there weren't, to be honest. I would think that in an era like this, where we have such advances in evidence based medicine, we would accept that intersexed people can exist.
And regarding scientists disregarding the evidence, I severely hope that isn't true. Doesn't that go against everything science stands for?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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13-03-2011, 10:22 PM
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
Oh thanks for the clarity that helps a lot. There is a lot of genetic modification of things which is being spread through sources like food without the best research. Many scientists are paid to make things, and there are plenty who will do something if they can do it. Most scientists are very excited when it comes to genetic engineering and for some it's scary. There are some gross missteps being taken in genetic modification, but in truth most of the excitement sprouts from how many good things can come when things make more sense.

The issue in genetics is that they are introducing things to humans before they've had serious lengthy research on other things. And some of these things are introduced to nearly everyone through water and food supplies. You never know what bad things might happen when you introduce something to the public after a few years of study. they test a hormone on pigs a few years and determine that the pigs are fine, so they start mass modifying pigs in order to gain the benefits. These pigs are slaughtered, and then fed to humans. The tests in the beginning don't generally include slaughtering and using a control group to test effects of consumption of them.

I'll agree most scientists are a bit too anxious with genetics but that doesn't really mean they have bad intents. Though I can still see the big pharmaceuticals having the ill intent. generally in this we run into the issue of a scientists desire for answers VS ethical ramifications of those answers.

I can bring up plenty of medical ethics debates and discussions on this, but I believe that in this case scientists are forgetting to observe and detail things in lieu of new discoveries. It's a danger, but I don't think it's as planned and schemed as some think.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-03-2011, 10:23 PM
 
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
Oh that's weird, i didn't see your first response, Daemon.

Then yea, your friend is right that there is plenty of evidence against it, but wrong in that there are none for it. Like you said, Insulin is a prime example.

As for the conspiracy theory with the entirety of the scientific community... yea...
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13-03-2011, 10:36 PM
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
(13-03-2011 10:22 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Though I can still see the big pharmaceuticals having the ill intent.

I would agree that the pharmaceutical companies have ill-intent, they're just for profit... The companies producing and selling seeds of GMO plants have made the seeds infertile, so as to make people keep coming back to buy more instead of growing their own.

I found this page on the FDA website, wherein it lists the seven steps of a "rigorous, seven-step review process".
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/News...190726.htm

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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14-03-2011, 07:03 AM
RE: Genetic Engineering and a possible Big Pharma
The conspiracy bug in the respect of Big Pharma is born out of a lack of understanding.
There is just one name behind unethical gmo development and that's Monsanto. Their track record is HORRIBLE to say the least.The runner ups, Pioneer , are much more decent http://www.pioneer.com/home/site/about/b.../long-look

Monsanto suffers from monopoly syndrome - they are the biggest (76% of market) so they do what they want.

Corporations are a-moral constructs designed for profit.IT's just that recently responsibility and reward have been completely divorced in western society.A company can go bankrupt and its investors can go in the toilet , as can the employees but the executives get a nice check with 7-8 figures.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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