Poll: Closest living relative of the Gorilla
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Genetic relationship between Homininae
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17-12-2012, 03:54 AM
Genetic relationship between Homininae
For along time we knew that the closest living relative of the genus Homo is Pan and in vise-versa. I don't know how valid this is, but supposedly chimpanzees have evolved genetically more than Humans from the time of split.
So what would be the current status on the Gorilla genus. Presumably the closest living relative of the gorilla would be the human due to the amount of change that occured in Pan is greater than that of Homo. But I don't know for sure. They never state the closest living relative of the gorilla, nor have I found any results; but they always use statements like, "Gorillas are the second most closest relative to the human" or "The closest living relative of gorillas are chimps and humans". But surely one of those two animals is closer to the gorilla than the other.

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17-12-2012, 08:03 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 03:54 AM)Hikaru Wrote:  For along time we knew that the closest living relative of the genus Homo is Pan and in vise-versa. I don't know how valid this is, but supposedly chimpanzees have evolved genetically more than Humans from the time of split.

It is more precise to say they have changed, not evolved. That is, that there are more genetic differences between them and our common ancestor.

Quote:So what would be the current status on the Gorilla genus. Presumably the closest living relative of the gorilla would be the human due to the amount of change that occured in Pan is greater than that of Homo. But I don't know for sure. They never state the closest living relative of the gorilla, nor have I found any results; but they always use statements like, "Gorillas are the second most closest relative to the human" or "The closest living relative of gorillas are chimps and humans". But surely one of those two animals is closer to the gorilla than the other.

No, the measure of closeness in evolutionary biology is generally a measure of how far in the past were there common ancestors.
Homo sapiens and chimps diverged about 6 MYA. That common ancestor diverged with gorillas about 13 MYA.

So we and chimps are equally close to the gorilla in the evolutionary sense of closeness.

Measuring closeness of DNA is non-trivial and can be interpreted in different ways.

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17-12-2012, 08:36 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 08:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, the measure of closeness in evolutionary biology is generally a measure of how far in the past were there common ancestors.
Homo sapiens and chimps diverged about 6 MYA. That common ancestor diverged with gorillas about 13 MYA.

So we and chimps are equally close to the gorilla in the evolutionary sense of closeness.

Measuring closeness of DNA is non-trivial and can be interpreted in different ways.


I guess my question was too ambiguous. The DNA of a gorilla is however more similar to a human than a chimpanzee, correct? The question was more of just a curiosity rather than trying to imply something. I just like gorillas more than chimpanzees.

I understand in terms of evolution, both species are equally evolved from their ancestral split. I think I ended up making to question look as if im implying that humans are more primitive. I do know that this is a sensitive part of biology for alot of people and that it tends to produce incorrect assumptions.

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17-12-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
^^^ ???
Implying that Chas gets sensitive?

Ohmy


Anyway, Pan is half goat and is not gay.

Did I miss something?

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17-12-2012, 08:54 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 08:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ^^^ ???
Implying that Chas gets sensitive?

Ohmy


Anyway, Pan is half goat and is not gay.

Did I miss something?
Chimp, Human, 6MYA, Common ancestor

Your typical everyday topic when it comes to evolution.

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17-12-2012, 08:59 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 08:36 AM)Hikaru Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 08:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, the measure of closeness in evolutionary biology is generally a measure of how far in the past were there common ancestors.
Homo sapiens and chimps diverged about 6 MYA. That common ancestor diverged with gorillas about 13 MYA.

So we and chimps are equally close to the gorilla in the evolutionary sense of closeness.

Measuring closeness of DNA is non-trivial and can be interpreted in different ways.


I guess my question was too ambiguous. The DNA of a gorilla is however more similar to a human than a chimpanzee, correct? The question was more of just a curiosity rather than trying to imply something. I just like gorillas more than chimpanzees.

No, not correct. Gorilla DNA is less similar to human than is chimpanzee DNA.

Quote:I understand in terms of evolution, both species are equally evolved from their ancestral split. I think I ended up making to question look as if im implying that humans are more primitive. I do know that this is a sensitive part of biology for alot of people and that it tends to produce incorrect assumptions.

'Primitive' is not a useful term in this context.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-12-2012, 10:51 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
I didn't vote because the choices are flawed. The last stuff I read on this subject stated that chimps are more closely related to humans than they are to gorillas. Chimps and humans are still more closely related because they share a common ancestor more recently (roughly 7 mya) than they do with gorillas (roughly 10 mya). The similarities between human and gorilla DNA are partly due to "independent lineage sorting."
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17-12-2012, 11:05 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
So where do Bonobos, Orang Utans and Gibbons fit relative to homo sapiens sapiens, Gorillas, and 'ordinary' Chimps, in your opinion?
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17-12-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 11:05 AM)Janus Wrote:  So where do Bonobos, Orang Utans and Gibbons fit relative to homo sapiens sapiens, Gorillas, and 'ordinary' Chimps, in your opinion?

Bonobos are just as related to us as Chimps because the two are cousins. Orangs are further back in our evolutionary history than gorillas. We last shared a common ancestor with them around 12 mya. They are the most arboreal or tree-dwelling of the great apes. Gibbons are the most distant as far as apes are concerned. They are called "lesser apes" because they are the most monkey-like of all apes in anatomy and lifestyle. We last shared a common ancestor with them around 18 mya.
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17-12-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: Genetic relationship between Homininae
(17-12-2012 10:51 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  I didn't vote because the choices are flawed. The last stuff I read on this subject stated that chimps are more closely related to humans than they are to gorillas. Chimps and humans are still more closely related because they share a common ancestor more recently (roughly 7 mya) than they do with gorillas (roughly 10 mya). The similarities between human and gorilla DNA are partly due to "independent lineage sorting."


I understand that the poll is flawed, just didn't figure it out at the time. I don't know if im reading it correct, but i'm assuming that it's not an answerable question with absolute certainty due to multiple scenarios that are all possible. I have a feeling im reading it wrong.

(I wonder why I keep getting the common ancestor split times. Undecided I never said that the human was more closely related to the gorilla than the chimp, but I guess my sentences are just bad.)

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