Genital Mutilation
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24-09-2010, 09:56 PM
Genital Mutilation
So, I was in the middle of watching one of Christopher Hitchen's debates, and he brought up that genital mutilation is strictly a religious practise/concept. This I knew, but I was suddenly struck with a question. If God has supposedly made humans in his image, then the human body must be perfect (this is on the assumption that religious people make that God is perfect, thus if we are in his image, we must at least be perfect in form/image). Therefore, if the human body is perfect, why do Judaism and Islam require their followers' bodies to be altered? Or, alternatively, was God so bad in making humans that humans need to "fix" themselves? (Which is an abhorrent concept if you apply it to some forms of female genital mutilation.) I don't see the reasoning behind this Undecided
(The only reasons that I can think of that anybody would practise genital mutilation are ease of cleanliness in the case of males, and control of sexual pleasure/activity in the case of females.)

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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24-09-2010, 10:59 PM
 
RE: Genital Mutilation
(24-09-2010 09:56 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  So, I was in the middle of watching one of Christopher Hitchen's debates, and he brought up that genital mutilation is strictly a religious practise/concept. This I knew, but I was suddenly struck with a question. If God has supposedly made humans in his image, then the human body must be perfect (this is on the assumption that religious people make that God is perfect, thus if we are in his image, we must at least be perfect in form/image). Therefore, if the human body is perfect, why do Judaism and Islam require their followers' bodies to be altered? Or, alternatively, was God so bad in making humans that humans need to "fix" themselves? (Which is an abhorrent concept if you apply it to some forms of female genital mutilation.) I don't see the reasoning behind this Undecided
(The only reasons that I can think of that anybody would practise genital mutilation are ease of cleanliness in the case of males, and control of sexual pleasure/activity in the case of females.)

nice question for people who believe humans were made in Gods image.
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25-09-2010, 12:35 AM
RE: Genital Mutilation
I have read about female genital mutilation. FGM. If I remember correctly, FGM is practiced to prevent women from enjoying sex so that they won't desire sex and won't cheat on their husbands. Maybe 'slave masters' is a more accurate term. The article when into much depth, but it was too long ago to be fresh in my memory. FGM is a very appalling and barbaric practice, which is condoned by the religion of its practitioners.
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25-09-2010, 07:47 AM
RE: Genital Mutilation
The clean penis thing is a myth.

What male genital mutilation does achieve though is glans damage due to lack of moisture.

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Leonard Nimoy
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25-09-2010, 08:00 AM
RE: Genital Mutilation
Is it possible to sue your parents or a doctor for circumsition? Not like many would do that, but in theory, if someone could just get away with cutting a part of your dick off without your permission, would'nt you be pissed?

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25-09-2010, 08:22 AM
RE: Genital Mutilation
I would sue my parents if I could. I don't even like them.

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Leonard Nimoy
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25-09-2010, 12:09 PM
RE: Genital Mutilation
(25-09-2010 07:47 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  The clean penis thing is a myth.

What male genital mutilation does achieve though is glans damage due to lack of moisture.

Yah, I don't quite agree with the cleanliness idea either, but it is one of the reasons given to continue practising it. Being a female, I cannot personally attest to the validity/invalidity of this theory, so I'll take your authority on it Tongue

This is the first I've heard of glans damage due to circumcision, but I can see how that might happen.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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25-09-2010, 01:29 PM
 
RE: Genital Mutilation
Does Yaweh/Allah even have a penis?
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25-09-2010, 01:56 PM
RE: Genital Mutilation
Fun facts. There were depictions of male mutilation in cave paintings and Egyptian tombs, meaning it may very well be a practice that predates Judaism. Also, there are medical reasons for male circumcision. I know someone who had his foreskin removed in his late 20s on the order of his doctor. So circumcision is not just practiced by the religious. There is a secular contingent who do it too (although I think that's only with males).

It is my understanding that in Abrahamic traditions, humans are not perfect. At the very least, in Christianity they are not. They are imperfect thanks to Adam and Eve and The Fall. So I don't know if the perfect argument is valid. Could be. Does anyone know better?

From what I read, in Judaism, circumcision is a part of the covenant between Jews and God. So from what I gather, it's not about making them more perfect but a part of their relationship with God.

But that's male circumcision.

The fucked up thing about female genital mutilation is that it is the women that do it. I've seen footage of it being performed. It's pretty horrifying. In the sitting position, they tie the girls knees to the mother's knees so that the mother can keep the daughter's legs spread open. Then another woman performs the procedure. From what I understand, it's generally performed without any anesthetic. It's pretty fucked up.

What's so weird about that, to me, is that it seems very much like a patriarchal form of control over women. But the women do it to themselves willingly (or perhaps under duress in some cases). I find it fascinating that so many cultures, if not all of them, have practices that from the outside seem abhorrent but from the inside seem, maybe not a-OK across the board (I've seen interviews with women who have had FGM done, who have left their homes for the West and who are involved in trying to eliminate the practice) but that people are willing to partake in, often without question. It's incredible what the human mind can be convinced of.

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25-09-2010, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2010 03:49 PM by Kikko.)
RE: Genital Mutilation
Quote:I know someone who had his foreskin removed in his late 20s on the order of his doctor. So circumcision is not just practiced by the religious. There is a secular contingent who do it too (although I think that's only with males).
Yes, it's good for you*, you you, for example, have a too small foreskin for your dick. There are also probably some less common reasons.

*Is it correct to use the word ''you'' as passive? I've had english in school for 7years and I do'nt remember them teaching about passive in english.

edit: Just to add to the topic, in 2006 in Finland, a mother was found prosecuted for having her 4-year old son circumcised. First she was found guilty, but she complained about the judgement and 2 years later the supreme court found her not guilty, because ''it was a religious tradition and therefore not illigal''. Seems like the law is interpreted in a way that only female genital mutilation is prohibited. Sucks.

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