Genital mutilation - child abuse?
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20-12-2014, 07:00 AM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 06:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 06:10 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends circumcision, stating "the benefits outweigh the risks."

I dunno. I think that such a decision as cutting the end of your wang off can be made by an adult very happily. Unless it protects against childhood diseases [edit] and is *clearly* *much* better than leaving it alone [/edit], think it's a bit off to decide for the kid.
Obviously the benefit is for adults. But it heals better when done at birth, and it's less traumatic. I was against it before my son was born because I'm so anti religion, but every doctor I talked to said they recommend it, and these are atheist doctors. Then I read that every major medical group promotes it for health reasons now. As atheists, most of us trust in medicine and science over religion in every respect, circumcision should be no different.

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20-12-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 07:00 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  As atheists, most of us trust in medicine and science over religion in every respect, circumcision should be no different.

Trusting in science and medicine over religion I agree with, but... ja, I guess if I ever had a kid I'd look into the matter more closely. Hmm. Just went to the wikipedia article.

Quote:The positions of the world's major medical organizations range from considering neonatal circumcision as having no benefit and significant risks to having a modest health benefit that outweighs small risks. No major medical organization recommends either universal circumcision for all infant males (aside from the recommendations of the World Health Organization for parts of Africa), or banning the procedure.

Looks like it's not a settled issue one way or the other.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 06:10 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Female genital mutilation (I refuse to call it female circumcision) removing the clitoris is one of the worst crimes imaginable. But comparing it to male circumcision is wrong.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends circumcision, stating "the benefits outweigh the risks." Multiple studies have shown that it reduces the chances of a multitude of diseases, especially for gay men. It no longer has anything to do with religion.

Try honestly attributing:
"After a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision
outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision."

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20-12-2014, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 12:09 PM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 09:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 06:10 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Female genital mutilation (I refuse to call it female circumcision) removing the clitoris is one of the worst crimes imaginable. But comparing it to male circumcision is wrong.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends circumcision, stating "the benefits outweigh the risks." Multiple studies have shown that it reduces the chances of a multitude of diseases, especially for gay men. It no longer has anything to do with religion.

Try honestly attributing:
"After a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision
outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision."
Sorry, I quoted the wrong group. It was the U.S. Center for Disease Control, or CDC, you know, that organization that is directed by progressive liberal non religious Obama appointees since 2009. Just this month they announced that their recommendation is for males to be circumcised due to lower risk of STD infection including HIV. They stopped short of saying it should be mandatory due to differing religious beliefs among Americans. I heard it on the radio a few weeks ago. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/cd...ion-120314

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20-12-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 11:34 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Sorry, I quoted the wrong group. It was the U.S. Center for Disease Control, or CDC, you know, that organization that is directed by progressive liberal non religious Obama appointees since 2009. Just this month they announced that their recommendation is for males to be circumcised due to lower risk of STD infection including HIV. They stopped short of saying it should be mandatory due to differing religious beliefs among Americans. I heard it on the radio a few weeks ago. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/cd...ion-120314

Injecting politics into a debate where it's like, totally absent... kinda makes you look like a crazy person...

Also if this is about HIV/STD infection prevention (from what I can gather from Wikipedia it's one area where circumcision is proven to have a beneficial effect in the general population, apart from situations where it's medically necessary), then I see no reason why it should be done to a kid.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 11:34 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 09:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  Try honestly attributing:
"After a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision
outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision."
Sorry, I quoted the wrong group. It was the U.S. Center for Disease Control, or CDC, you know, that organization that is directed by progressive liberal non religious Obama appointees since 2009. Just this month they announced that their recommendation is for males to be circumcised due to lower risk of STD infection including HIV. They stopped short of saying it should be mandatory due to differing religious beliefs among Americans. I heard it on the radio a few weeks ago. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/cd...ion-120314

What does any of that have to do with anything? It's not like its relevant.

There has been promotions about the health benefits for years. And in the last decades too of years public figures like Dr. Drew were in support of it still. It's a matter of having a little bit advantageous in STD receiving regard and a matter of potential trouble from uncleanliness, but that's really a non issue in industrialized areas. It's still a very slim risk for a slim benefit kind of operation with a bit of necessary precaution, there isn't any regular problem from being uncut.

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20-12-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 12:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 11:34 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Sorry, I quoted the wrong group. It was the U.S. Center for Disease Control, or CDC, you know, that organization that is directed by progressive liberal non religious Obama appointees since 2009. Just this month they announced that their recommendation is for males to be circumcised due to lower risk of STD infection including HIV. They stopped short of saying it should be mandatory due to differing religious beliefs among Americans. I heard it on the radio a few weeks ago. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/cd...ion-120314

Injecting politics into a debate where it's like, totally absent... kinda makes you look like a crazy person...

Also if this is about HIV/STD infection prevention (from what I can gather from Wikipedia it's one area where circumcision is proven to have a beneficial effect in the general population, apart from situations where it's medically necessary), then I see no reason why it should be done to a kid.

I only threw Obama out there because he appointed the people in charge at the CDC, and people against circumcision generally are more progressive just like Obama and his appointments. Now if it was still run by a Bush appointee people would say well of course the CDC director is a religious nut who is only recommending circumcision because it fits his belief system.

Interestingly, the CDC recommended circumcision for adult males too, if they haven't been yet. So it's not just for babies, and there is no harm in waiting until adulthood I suppose. However, at the young age that people begin sex these days, why risk it?

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20-12-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 12:30 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Interestingly, the CDC recommended circumcision for adult males too, if they haven't been yet. So it's not just for babies, and there is no harm in waiting until adulthood I suppose. However, at the young age that people begin sex these days, why risk it?

Well if you just got their equipment removed entirely when they were kids you could prevent the risk *entirely* Rolleyes

You risk it because it's the kid's body and later in life he may wish that he hadn't been circumcised - you remove the choice. If there's an actual medical reason to do it right then then sure, my bro is circumcised for that reason. But... otherwise I see no compelling case. But ja, since there are claimed benefits and since it's not illegal, I don't see that you can call it abuse... But the debate is really, *should* it be classified as abuse?

I mean, if there were some sorta claimed marginal medical benefit to chopping your kid's ears off early in life, would you see removing the ears as just fine, or would it be abuse?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2014, 12:49 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 12:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 12:30 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Interestingly, the CDC recommended circumcision for adult males too, if they haven't been yet. So it's not just for babies, and there is no harm in waiting until adulthood I suppose. However, at the young age that people begin sex these days, why risk it?

Well if you just got their equipment removed entirely when they were kids you could prevent the risk *entirely* Rolleyes

You risk it because it's the kid's body and later in life he may wish that he hadn't been circumcised - you remove the choice. If there's an actual medical reason to do it right then then sure, my bro is circumcised for that reason. But... otherwise I see no compelling case. But ja, since there are claimed benefits and since it's not illegal, I don't see that you can call it abuse... But the debate is really, *should* it be classified as abuse?

I mean, if there were some sorta claimed marginal medical benefit to chopping your kid's ears off early in life, would you see removing the ears as just fine, or would it be abuse?
Trust me, I get it. And when my son was born 4 months ago I had long arguments with my girlfriend's family because they wanted it done for religious reasons. Back when I became an atheist the common message from doctors was that there was no benefit to circumcision. So I always said I would NEVER circumcise my son. I went to the computer to show them what I had read 15 years ago only to find that the most recent studies no longer showed there was no benefit. I had to really do some serious thinking and in the end decided to do it. It wasn't an easy decision.

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20-12-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Genital mutilation - child abuse?
(20-12-2014 12:49 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Trust me, I get it. And when my son was born 4 months ago I had long arguments with my girlfriend's family because they wanted it done for religious reasons. Back when I became an atheist the common message from doctors was that there was no benefit to circumcision. So I always said I would NEVER circumcise my son. I went to the computer to show them what I had read 15 years ago only to find that the most recent studies no longer showed there was no benefit. I had to really do some serious thinking and in the end decided to do it. It wasn't an easy decision.

I think from what I see of my mates tearing their hair out in all directions, that *any* decision related to your kids ain't easy.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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