Genocide in the Bible
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17-09-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Chas the pedant, I would point out again that your quoted definition includes targeting people because of religion which I included and have said above technically fits your definition. The rest I will agree was simply murder and will allow again I played loosely with the generally accepted use of the word genocide.

You chose to ignore the sense of my original post to make some silly (again) point about word usage. A clear case of pedantry.

I will in the future refer to you as Pedant, of course if I remember, it is getting more difficult in my dotage.
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17-09-2013, 11:49 AM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(17-09-2013 11:38 AM)JAH Wrote:  Chas the pedant, I would point out again that your quoted definition includes targeting people because of religion which I included and have said above technically fits your definition. The rest I will agree was simply murder and will allow again I played loosely with the generally accepted use of the word genocide.

You chose to ignore the sense of my original post to make some silly (again) point about word usage. A clear case of pedantry.

I will in the future refer to you as Pedant, of course if I remember, it is getting more difficult in my dotage.

Getting all shirty about a bad simile doesn't make it a good simile. Drinking Beverage

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18-09-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(16-09-2013 02:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-09-2013 02:28 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I’ll repeat myself since you are wandering way off this thread now: “Why do you think genocide is unethical?”

Ah, yes.

Not answering the question.

Again.

You know, you could just start an I pretend not to understand secular morality thread, and be done with it.

(16-09-2013 02:28 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  From whence do these rights derive? In the animal kingdom, predators look for unguarded eggs and young. Do the eggs of birds have inviolate rights, and so it is unethical for lizards to prey on them?

This has - let me check - nothing to do with the thread. Congratulations.

I do understand secular morality:

It is personal as well as corporate, subjective not objective, and lacks the "moral imperative" to do anything stronger than "educate" the Hitlers of the world as to reciprocity and mutual economic benefit from altruism. Yawn.

And again, you STILL have not even TOUCHED my question, "How do you KNOW via EMPIRICAL evidence genocide is unethical?"
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18-09-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(18-09-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And again, you STILL have not even TOUCHED my question, "How do you KNOW via EMPIRICAL evidence genocide is unethical?"

We really gonna play this idiotic game?

Nowhere did I claim an empirical basis for morality; nowhere did I claim to know with certainty ethical conclusions.

Stupid or dishonest; the eternal dilemma.

You gonna answer my question, any time soon? You going to fully own up to the full articulation of what you've been saying in this thread: genocide is okay if divinely endorsed and morality is externally imposed?

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19-09-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(18-09-2013 03:13 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And again, you STILL have not even TOUCHED my question, "How do you KNOW via EMPIRICAL evidence genocide is unethical?"

We really gonna play this idiotic game?

Nowhere did I claim an empirical basis for morality; nowhere did I claim to know with certainty ethical conclusions.

Stupid or dishonest; the eternal dilemma.

You gonna answer my question, any time soon? You going to fully own up to the full articulation of what you've been saying in this thread: genocide is okay if divinely endorsed and morality is externally imposed?

Did I not own up to it multiple pages ago on this and other threads? "Genocide is okay [when god so commands]." God killed almost everyone in the Flood!

And you're offering subjective reasons why it's not okay. So, we can agree to disagree or are your subjective truths wholly true and binding on others?
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19-09-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(18-09-2013 03:13 PM)cjlr Wrote:  We really gonna play this idiotic game?

Nowhere did I claim an empirical basis for morality; nowhere did I claim to know with certainty ethical conclusions.

Stupid or dishonest; the eternal dilemma.

You gonna answer my question, any time soon? You going to fully own up to the full articulation of what you've been saying in this thread: genocide is okay if divinely endorsed and morality is externally imposed?

Did I not own up to it multiple pages ago on this and other threads? "Genocide is okay [when god so commands]." God killed almost everyone in the Flood!

And you're offering subjective reasons why it's not okay. So, we can agree to disagree or are your subjective truths wholly true and binding on others?

There was no Flood.

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19-09-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Did I not own up to it multiple pages ago on this and other threads? "Genocide is okay [when god so commands]." God killed almost everyone in the Flood!

Not explicitly. So thank you for saying so. Pure divine command for you, then, is it?

(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And you're offering subjective reasons why it's not okay. So, we can agree to disagree or are your subjective truths wholly true and binding on others?

The difference is that you don't think your reasons are subjective.

Of course I judge by my subjective standards. I have no other grounds on which to judge.

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19-09-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Did I not own up to it multiple pages ago on this and other threads? "Genocide is okay [when god so commands]." God killed almost everyone in the Flood!

And you're offering subjective reasons why it's not okay. So, we can agree to disagree or are your subjective truths wholly true and binding on others?

Your 'objective' standards are built around the subjective stories passed down by subjective humans with subjective agendas and copied and edited by others with their own subjective agendas and interpretations, translated and re-edited over and over again, going through more and more subjective filters; until it is finally interpenetrated by your own subjective mind.

This is the basis for your 'objective' truth, and it's an 'objective' joke! Laughat

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22-09-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(16-09-2013 12:37 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:

Your stacking the deck and using your presentist views. Take slavery for one example. Here’s 30,000 words on why biblical slavery was a lot closer to what we call in the present day gainful employment and not the Southern style slavery of the United States:

http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html

[quote] Further, Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred when we were still at war with the enemy, whereas the Genocide commanded in the Bible (which I will show later was actually SOP - standard operating procedure) happened after the war was over.


PJ:

I was wrong, I thought that you had some intellectual integrity. You don't.

The idea that the the slavery of the Christian Old Testament was more akin to domestic servants than modern slavery is repudiated by your own bible. Your cited post of 30,000 words of drivel tries to make the claims that 1. Slaves weren't property 2. it was voluntary and 3. they were treated well. I don't need 30,000 words, I just need one quote from your bible. Your bible says:

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)"

You can beat your slave and as long as they don't die right away with no punishment, that is cruelty. Second, the slave IS property that can be bought or sold. Third, it is clearly NOT voluntary, since no slave would continue to allow themselves to be beaten nearly to death if they could just walk away. They can beat them until they almost die!!! Fucking eat shit on this point you liar.

Your ridiculous comment that the wars were never really "over" but lasted until the exile to Babylon is so retarded that it doesn't deserve a retort, but I will:

31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (31:14)
(31:15) "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?"

(31:17) "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

(31:18) "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

So the war was over, the men had returned from battle, and Moses commanded them to GO BACK AND KILL ALL THE NON-VIRGIN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

The battle was over, and Genocide was commanded. Fucking eat it again you liar. I've quoted this to you more than once already.

Because I have quoted this to you three times and you still claim ignorance to what your bible clearly says, you have proven that you will try to LIE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL YOU ARE CALLED ON IT to prove a point that supports your christian claims. There is no way this is just ignorance, it is total and straight-forward deceit. Every christian apologist I've seen ends up here, and that's why they get no respect.

You are a Liar and have no moral standing here. Good luck with your Divine fiat line of reasoning, you will need it.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

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23-09-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(19-09-2013 02:56 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Did I not own up to it multiple pages ago on this and other threads? "Genocide is okay [when god so commands]." God killed almost everyone in the Flood!

Not explicitly. So thank you for saying so. Pure divine command for you, then, is it?

(19-09-2013 02:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And you're offering subjective reasons why it's not okay. So, we can agree to disagree or are your subjective truths wholly true and binding on others?

The difference is that you don't think your reasons are subjective.

Of course I judge by my subjective standards. I have no other grounds on which to judge.

I didn't state my standards are objective. If there is an omnipotent god he could provide such. But mine are subjective. I ask again why your subjective standards are "right".
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