Genocide in the Bible
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25-09-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:04 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  All,

I'm cutting to the chase here:

1) Liberal scholars believe the HB was written circa 300 BC and that the Exodus and the Israelite conquest of Canaan are myths. Therefore, you are complaining about genocide and slavery that never occured.

2) Bible believers say the writing was earlier and there was a genocide and slavery. They also finished reading the rest of the HB to see that something like 200 times in it, god warned the Israelites that syncretism and inter-marriage would lead to death for the Israelites, diaspora and persecution. These pledges/prophecies came to pass!

Pick one.

3) The entire first 5 books of the Bible are mythological and bear no relationship to the actual events. They were edited and rearranged by priests looking to legitimise the southern kingdom of Judah after the fall of the northern Kingdom.

Then what do you accomplish by challenging Christians that the scriptures promote enslavements and genocides that never occured?
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25-09-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:18 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  3) The entire first 5 books of the Bible are mythological and bear no relationship to the actual events. They were edited and rearranged by priests looking to legitimise the southern kingdom of Judah after the fall of the northern Kingdom.

Then what do you accomplish by challenging Christians that the scriptures promote enslavements and genocides that never occured?



(25-09-2013 01:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  That.

And, you know. That the salient point isn't whether the events occurred, it's that they're endorsed.


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25-09-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:18 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Then what do you accomplish by challenging Christians that the scriptures promote enslavements and genocides that never occured?



(25-09-2013 01:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  That.

And, you know. That the salient point isn't whether the events occurred, it's that they're endorsed.


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I see. So, you're saying the Bible endorses genocide. That's a sweeping statement. Would it be more correct to say the Bible endorsed an ANE genocide or killing Canaanite residents (which is wacky if there was no Israelite conquest, it has the residents of the land condoning genocide against themselves) and not say, a German WWII genocide (since it targeted Jews among others)?

In other words, since the Jews are chosen people in the scriptures, are you correct in saying the Bible endorses genocide in general or the Bible endorsed killing a certain group(s) of peoples who lived in the ANE?
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25-09-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Drinking Beverage

I see. So, you're saying the Bible endorses genocide. That's a sweeping statement. Would it be more correct to say the Bible endorsed an ANE genocide or killing Canaanite residents (which is wacky if there was no Israelite conquest, it has the residents of the land condoning genocide against themselves) and not say, a German WWII genocide (since it targeted Jews among others)?

In other words, since the Jews are chosen people in the scriptures, are you correct in saying the Bible endorses genocide in general or the Bible endorsed killing a certain group(s) of peoples who lived in the ANE?

Endorsing any genocide means that genocide is acceptable under your morality. Doesn't matter how you have to frame the reasons once you say hey this is ok sometimes it means that Genocide is an acceptable action.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-09-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I see. So, you're saying the Bible endorses genocide.

No, the Bible is saying that.

(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  That's a sweeping statement.

Only if interpreted dishonestly context-free, as is your wont.

(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Would it be more correct to say the Bible endorsed an ANE genocide or killing Canaanite residents

Yes, but that is already implicit.

(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  (which is wacky if there was no Israelite conquest, it has the residents of the land condoning genocide against themselves)

Which is entirely irrelevant to the endorsement, and you know it...

(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  and not say, a German WWII genocide (since it targeted Jews among others)?

If it's okay in one context and not another the only difference is in divine mandate, not an innate morality. But nice Godwin.

(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In other words, since the Jews are chosen people in the scriptures, are you correct in saying the Bible endorses genocide in general or the Bible endorsed killing a certain group(s) of peoples who lived in the ANE?

Please tell me you have a point.

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25-09-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 01:31 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I see. So, you're saying the Bible endorses genocide. That's a sweeping statement. Would it be more correct to say the Bible endorsed an ANE genocide or killing Canaanite residents (which is wacky if there was no Israelite conquest, it has the residents of the land condoning genocide against themselves) and not say, a German WWII genocide (since it targeted Jews among others)?

In other words, since the Jews are chosen people in the scriptures, are you correct in saying the Bible endorses genocide in general or the Bible endorsed killing a certain group(s) of peoples who lived in the ANE?

Endorsing any genocide means that genocide is acceptable under your morality. Doesn't matter how you have to frame the reasons once you say hey this is ok sometimes it means that Genocide is an acceptable action.

No, that is illogical. The Nazis endorsed killing Jews and not killing Aryans. The Allies endorsed killing German soldiers and not Allied soldiers, etc.

The point I'm making has to do with the Bible endorses killing those who can kill us (with false religion). Capital punishment (or incarceration) by the way, does the same thing. I'm not mincing words here, as I wrote today, either the genocide never occured making for a straw man argument (Hey, Christians! How can you believe a book that endorses the killing of people who are already dead two millennia?) or atheists are guilty of making half the argument (Hey, Christians! How can you endorse a book that says to eradicate something/someone that can kill you--let them kill you!)
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25-09-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Cjlr:

Quote:Please tell me you have a point.

That the Bible never endorsed genocide in general but a specific killing of a certain people group. You might as well say Hitler or Stalin wanted to kill every person on Earth. I'm sorry but I think we should hold each other to factual standards.
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25-09-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
How can I kill someone with false religion???

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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25-09-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 02:13 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  How can I kill someone with false religion???

See the Church of Rome aka The Catholic Church. They have been doing so for about 1500 years.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-09-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-09-2013 02:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Cjlr:

Quote:Please tell me you have a point.

That the Bible never endorsed genocide in general but a specific killing of a certain people group. You might as well say Hitler or Stalin wanted to kill every person on Earth. I'm sorry but I think we should hold each other to factual standards.

Yes. Indeed. But by all means, show me where anyone has not made that distinction, particularly as regards the most recent portion of the conversation. The generalisation is nonetheless relevant in light of your divine command morality, by which standard mere 'human' genocide is bad, but God's genocide is A-OK.


I'd also note that you have just stated that the Bible endorsed specific killing of a certain people group. Your exact words!

I bring this up, since, if you'll recall, you entered this thread by denying that the actions depicted in the Bible constituted genocide, stating that a war of extermination remained a just war. You brought up the outside examples to that end, despite their irrelevance. You then attempted to redefine genocide such that it has never occurred. You then denied that atheists had moral grounds to condemn genocide, and, once again, Godwinned hard.

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