Genocide in the Bible
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27-08-2013, 04:53 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2013 04:56 PM by Sam.)
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Deuteronomy 3:4-7

At that time we captured all his towns; there was no citadel that we did not take from them—sixty towns, the whole region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were fortress towns with high walls, double gates, and bars, besides a great many villages. And we utterly destroyed them, as we had done to King Sihon of Heshbon, in each city utterly destroying men, women, and children. But all the livestock and the plunder of the towns we kept as spoil for ourselves.

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27-08-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
PJ! I'm glad you came to the party.

Is the killing of women and children genocide? Yes or no?

Did God command Genocide? YES OR NO?

Simple question, simple answer. You said "Never." Do you correct your statement in the spirit of being truthful or do you not? Did God command Genocide? Answer the fucking question pretty please with sugar on top. YES, OR NO?

And if course, if the answer is yes....... Was God Moral to do so? Unarmed women and children of whatever faith - BAAL, ASHERAH, Islam, Morman, Hindu? Who is it OK for God to kill now because they turned on him? Your answer is everyone - For the wages of sin is DEATH right?

I looked lustfully at a women today - do I deserve eternal hellfire punishment for that one look and thought? Do I?

Society gives a man 15 years for manslaughter, but your God gives a MILLION TRILLION BILLION HUNDRED QUADRILLION BILLION QUAUDRAHUNDRED MILLION BRAZILIAN MILLION YEARS for it right? What about that one lustful thought? Tell me, a quadrillion billion years is your god's justice for one lustful thought? He's 100% just right? Really? Really? And that's justice? Answer this honestly dude. Tell the truth.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

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27-08-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(25-08-2013 12:29 AM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  



Even if this guy isn't completely accurate Noah's flood alone would be one of the largest genocides in history perpetrated by a single event. Even if you argued people were sinful I doubt babies and young kids were anything close to evil.

But you know babies had to obviously have been something horrid God had created for him to drown them all. Maybe they were just ugly, who knows, God kills a ridiculous amount of things just out for the hell of it.

Even the devil can't keep up. God created him just to blame something I guess.

Not to mention revelations where god comes back and destroys the earth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...igions.PNG

Which would be the current population of the world, save 33% ish.

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27-08-2013, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2013 08:54 PM by Diogenes of Mayberry.)
RE: Genocide in the Bible
If I might take the liberty of quoting from my own book, Manifest Insanity, on this topic:

“The most blatant example of Jewish anti-Semitism comes from 1 Samuel 15:3. ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’ The commandment to kill the Amaleks is one of the six hundred thirteen mitzvoth of Mosaic Law that Jews are—or perhaps were—required to follow as part of their faith. This passage in 1 Samuel was derived from one of these mitzvoth, specifically, from Deuteronomy 25:19. ‘Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.’ In the case of modern Jewish extremism, some radicals have extended the definition of the Amaleks to include the Palestinians as a convenient weapon in their arsenal of hatred. They claim this is a fundamental belief of their religion and wrap their intolerance up in the big, pink bow of religious faith. Genocide justified in the name of religion as a cover for territorial acquisition—it brings a tear to your eye.”

“You can’t be serious,” Miss Trevalio uttered in sincere disbelief at the shocking revelation.

“Oh, I am deadly, and I do mean deadly, serious. Their own Scriptures amply testify to, and from which, the ultra-zealous claim a justification for ridding all of the biblical land of Israel of any non-Jews. These radical Jews are every bit as extreme and violent as their Muslim counterparts in God’s terror squads. As Karen Armstrong so aptly described it in her book, ‘The mythos of Genesis thus became the rationale for a political program of ethnic cleansing.’ One of the most violently overt examples came in 1980 when a fanatical rabbi named Israel Hess published an article titled Genocide: A Commandment of the Torah, in which he advocated for the extermination of the Palestinians as descendants of the Amaleks, and as commanded by God, that they be wiped off the face of the earth.

“A righteous call for the extermination of an entire people within thirty-five years of the Holocaust, the irony is too shocking to even comment. I will leave you to contemplate the significance of such a barbaric paradox for yourselves. Now, as you may have guessed the Amaleks were not only a Semitic tribe, but according to their very own Holy texts—Genesis 36:12 to be exact—they would be cousins of the Hebrews as descended from Jacob’s brother, Esau. Given that this family feud never ends, perhaps the Jews and all their Semitic cousins should go on The Jerry Springer Show and have a good redneck-time slapping the hell out of each other and just get it over with once and for all."

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27-08-2013, 08:58 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
(27-08-2013 01:57 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  “If Noah is true, there was genocide”. Of course, that’s skipping over the… wait for it… context. People were more degenerate then than even now and “did whatever they wanted”. Oh yes, and the REAL context of “Everyone in the planet Earth might die of natural causes [like floods]!”

Apparently it's not genocide if you deserve it. GOD IS GREAT.

(27-08-2013 01:57 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  1. There was advance knowledge of the Canaanites (about 40 years’ worth) that the Jews were god’s people, coming out of Egypt with smoke and wonders, and were killing everyone, and even Balak gave them four blessings when Baalam cursed them.

2. The Canaanites were doing some bad stuff. ABRAHAM was told they were the worst kind of pagans and then god gave them 400 YEARS to repent.

Apparently it's not genocide if you're the wrong sort of people. GOD IS GREAT.

(27-08-2013 01:57 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  3. It’s not a genocide when the people you “blitzkrieg” have giants, fortified cities, huge armies, mercenaries they pay from other lands, and iron chariots. The Jews have left Egypt WITHOUT ANY WEAPONS in their possession unless they picked some up at a… wait for it… FLOOD SALE. The Jews were SO SCARED OF ATTACKING THE PEOPLES WITH THEIR “BLITZKRIEGING ARMIES” they disobeyed god and wandered forty years!

Apparently it's not genocide if you have to work at it. GOD IS GREAT.


You are a moral vacuum.

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28-08-2013, 12:34 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Quote:PJ! I'm glad you came to the party.

Is the killing of women and children genocide? Yes or no?

Did God command Genocide? YES OR NO?

Simple question, simple answer. You said "Never." Do you correct your statement in the spirit of being truthful or do you not? Did God command Genocide? Answer the fucking question pretty please with sugar on top. YES, OR NO?

And if course, if the answer is yes....... Was God Moral to do so? Unarmed women and children of whatever faith - BAAL, ASHERAH, Islam, Morman, Hindu? Who is it OK for God to kill now because they turned on him? Your answer is everyone - For the wages of sin is DEATH right?

I looked lustfully at a women today - do I deserve eternal hellfire punishment for that one look and thought? Do I?

Society gives a man 15 years for manslaughter, but your God gives a MILLION TRILLION BILLION HUNDRED QUADRILLION BILLION QUAUDRAHUNDRED MILLION BRAZILIAN MILLION YEARS for it right? What about that one lustful thought? Tell me, a quadrillion billion years is your god's justice for one lustful thought? He's 100% just right? Really? Really? And that's justice? Answer this honestly dude. Tell the truth.

From Wikipedia: Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, Caste, religious, or national group", though what constitutes enough of a "part" to qualify as genocide has been subject to much debate by legal scholars.

So, I would say, “Yes, god does command genocide,” unless we look at context, which I’ve tried to point out to you several times. Regardless, you are addressing the heart of the issue, e.g.:

What can a college student do to be expelled? Examples:

*not pay fees/tuition

*fail classwork

*plagiarize

*be caught dealing drugs on campus

*Etc.

Now, they need not do ALL those things, just ONE or more, to be convicted as a lawbreaker and expelled from campus. So, moving on, how many times must someone sin to not be in Heaven?

The answer is, you can sin a MILLION times and still go to Heaven. I sin daily. I’m going to Heaven despite thousands and thousands of sins. Jesus died and resurrected for us both. So how does one go to Hell instead?

One chooses to not go to Heaven. It’s a choice of one’s free will.

You are asking some excellent and serious questions with your post, so let me please share another analogy if I may. You cheat on your best friend by fooling around with his girlfriend one night. He catches you and you say, “I only did one thing! What do I get? What am I supposed to deserve?”

He says, “You bum! You deserve to catch a beating for what you did. I owe you a beating, but I’m not giving you one, because I love you, bro.”

And then you say, “No way, I want that beating. Give it to me, please! I reject your compassion for me, I hate you and everyone associated with you.”

Since in that same vein people reject god and go to Hell, I have some compassion for them, but not for their incredible pride.
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28-08-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Quote: Not to mention revelations where god comes back and destroys the earth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...igions.PNG

Which would be the current population of the world, save 33% ish.

Why are we putz-ing around with this issue. God will take the life of every person who has ever lived at some point, barring a rapture! God “kills and gives life, gives and takes away.” It’s a fact. God has killed a million times more people than the Nazis, sure.

Will you be like Job who said, “The Lord gives [life] and the Lord takes it away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!”
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28-08-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Quote: “A righteous call for the extermination of an entire people within thirty-five years of the Holocaust, the irony is too shocking to even comment. I will leave you to contemplate the significance of such a barbaric paradox for yourselves. Now, as you may have guessed the Amaleks were not only a Semitic tribe, but according to their very own Holy texts—Genesis 36:12 to be exact—they would be cousins of the Hebrews as descended from Jacob’s brother, Esau. Given that this family feud never ends, perhaps the Jews and all their Semitic cousins should go on The Jerry Springer Show and have a good redneck-time slapping the hell out of each other and just get it over with once and for all."

Diogenes, you may have me over a barrel with this one. Smile You’ve (of course you did) excerpted WHY Amalek was to be struck and their knowledge of the Exodus and their history with the Israelites. It’s called context. Would you like to research the context and get back to us on this one?
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28-08-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
Quote:Apparently it's not genocide if you deserve it. GOD IS GREAT.

Not even close to what I said re: Noah. What I wrote was how the people who died in a great flood died of natural causes! Calling it genocide is typical bunk. All people NOT “taken by god or free will” die of natural causes. Does god genocide everyone? Every animal and every plant? If that is so, how come when YOU kill an animal or plant that isn’t part of a larger genocide? You’re being ridiculous.

Quote: Apparently it's not genocide if you're the wrong sort of people. GOD IS GREAT.

They were wicked in Canaan but it still wasn’t genocide. They had chariots, fortified cities and giants. The people were naturally afraid and wandered forty years as a consequence. If even the Nazis (dear godwin!) waited forty years to attack the Jewish people and then fought them in a series of battles and wars because they had a LARGER armament than the Nazis, and for FORTY MORE YEARS under Joshua, we’d still hate their racial doctrine, but it wouldn’t be a genocide, and if you say it would be, you’ve completely lost it, dude.

Quote: Apparently it's not genocide if you have to work at it. GOD IS GREAT.

If you cannot parse genocide from armed combat where both sides bear arms, please don’t ever be a diplomat or other government civil servant. I beg you!

Quote: You are a moral vacuum.

No, rather you’re uncomfortable discussing hypotheticals and real-world situations without putting emotionalism and hyperbole into the mix. And you have the idea to place a moral judgment on the Christian worldview that cannot be justified from a naturalist’s viewpoint, which is an inconsistent worldview. On the other hand, I’m comfortable with a just god.

It sounds further like you are uncomfortable in the marketplace of ideas without adding emotions to the mix. Please refrain. After all, we are discussing alleged genocide 3,500 years ago, in a book you said you don’t believe in to any extent. Would you ALL CAPS at me if we were discussing Lord of the Rings or Star Trek ideas? (I’ll be at DragonCon next week, maybe we can meet there.)
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28-08-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: Genocide in the Bible
PJ your examples imply someone did something wrong, and then paid the price. Not sure I agree, but it is understandable. So what did the babies do that they deserved killing?

I was also thinking about "context" , why would God need context? He supposedly has been alive forever, knows the future, and could write or speech to text accordingly. He would already know the problems that people would have with the stories, and spell it out to avoid confusion.

Also, as he knew the future, why did he create all men, and then make the Israelites the chosen, and then tell the chosen to slaughter the others? Did he not love them? Could he not show himself to them like he did the Israelites to show them the way?
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