Gentlemen and Whores.
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29-10-2014, 04:41 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2014 04:45 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
I don't have any issues with the legalized sex trade in the US, Woofmeister. The porn industry regulates itself well and does a good job at protecting both its performers and customers from STDs and physical violence (with the occasional notable exception which they generally promptly correct 'cause it's like bad for business and whatnot). Similarly for The Bunny Ranch and other legal brothels. And even the high-end illegal escort services take similar measures. But ...

(26-10-2014 09:31 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for the "gentlemen", if they pay perhaps they won 't rape, ...

(28-10-2014 05:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have been trying to write a response but can't seem to get past the concept that if a man pays for sex it may keep him from committing a rape.

Rape has nothing to do with sex or lust. It is all about violent physical dominance. The sex is just the rapist's perverse and twisted idea of displaying dominance.

Fun fact for all you Johns out there: In the US, if you're with a prostitute and she agrees to let you film the act, it's no longer illegal prostitution but legal porn. Fucked up isn't it.

#sigh
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29-10-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(29-10-2014 04:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't have any issues with the legalized sex trade in the US, Woofmeister. The porn industry regulates itself well and does a good job at protecting both its performers and customers from STDs and physical violence (with the occasional notable exception which they generally promptly correct 'cause it's like bad for business and whatnot). Similarly for The Bunny Ranch and other legal brothels. And even the high-end illegal escort services take similar measures. But ...

(26-10-2014 09:31 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for the "gentlemen", if they pay perhaps they won 't rape, ...

(28-10-2014 05:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have been trying to write a response but can't seem to get past the concept that if a man pays for sex it may keep him from committing a rape.

Rape has nothing to do with sex or lust. It is all about violent physical dominance. The sex is just the rapist's perverse and twisted idea of displaying dominance.

Fun fact for all you Johns out there: If you're with a prostitute and she agrees to let you film it, it's no longer illegal prostitution but legal porn. Fucked up isn't it.

Yep...rape entirely different subject!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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29-10-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(29-10-2014 04:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 05:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have been trying to write a response but can't seem to get past the concept that if a man pays for sex it may keep him from committing a rape.

Rape has nothing to do with sex or lust. It is all about violent physical dominance. The sex is just the rapist's perverse and twisted idea of displaying dominance.

My point exactly.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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29-10-2014, 04:57 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 04:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I would be interested to see more hard data. But off the top of my head, what are consequences of prostitution being illegal versus legal?

When it's illegal, it has strong parallels to when abortion is illegal; mainly that it doesn't stop, but rather moves underground. This results in an overall more dangerous scenario for the women. They cannot rely on police for protection without endangering themselves, and it's heavy stigmatization discourages regular health exams.

Making it at least as legal as professional pornography (regulated with background and health checks), would certainly make things safer for the individuals involved. It would make it far easier to ensure the women's health and safety. Here I also see parallels with the legalization of recreational drugs, in that once you legalize and regulate it, you remove power from those who profit and exploit it (drug dealers and pimps respectively). That's not to say that it won't be abused, but it's easier to catch and prevent abuses the further out into the light they are. I think more transparency is better in this case.


So without substantial evidence of an overall net-negative affect on society, I'm inclined to legalize prostitution. If it's already legal to have sex with someone for money so long as there is a camera recording it (porn), why not legalize prostitution? Much like if alcohol and it's negative affects are acceptable social risks, why not legalize marijuana? If porn and alcohol are our barometers for what is legally permissible, then prostitution and weed should both have been legal long ago.
I do not see the legalization of 'everything' as a really satisfactory result.

Please cite where I advocated legalizing 'everything'.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Pushing of social problems underground is of course bad as you indicate, but if some types of behaviour are socially divisive then legalizing them will not adequately address any intrinsic evil.

Intrinsic evil? Are you fucking serious? Facepalm



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  To use ad hoc methods to justify legal brothels may have minimal benefits, while doing such via that legitimization may create further problems.

'May' being the optimal word there. As of right now, the potential positive gains outweigh the current known negatives.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The underground aspect may well continue too, as yet another option.

Of course, because not everything will be legal. There will still be an underground trade for sex slaves and children. It's sick, but I fail to see how that's an argument against a pair of consenting adults from exchanging sex for money without a camera crew filming the transaction.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  If we look at the sex industry as a solid legal contributor to the economy we may be tempted to ignore hidden issues and see such as being put totally right by the legality of the business in question.

But we will never know unless we at least attempt to legalize it, experiment, and see what happens with greater oversight, transparency and less stigmatization.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Education, of an open type will help relevant to consumer decision making.
Unfortunately, if the mass education reflects the so called rights of vested interests, via all types of consumerism, then such becomes something of a joke with Big Brother replacing the illegal pushers.

Uh, what were you smoking when you typed this? I can't parse what you're trying to get across...

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29-10-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(29-10-2014 04:57 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I do not see the legalization of 'everything' as a really satisfactory result.

Please cite where I advocated legalizing 'everything'.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Pushing of social problems underground is of course bad as you indicate, but if some types of behaviour are socially divisive then legalizing them will not adequately address any intrinsic evil.

Intrinsic evil? Are you fucking serious? Facepalm



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  To use ad hoc methods to justify legal brothels may have minimal benefits, while doing such via that legitimization may create further problems.

'May' being the optimal word there. As of right now, the potential positive gains outweigh the current known negatives.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The underground aspect may well continue too, as yet another option.

Of course, because not everything will be legal. There will still be an underground trade for sex slaves and children. It's sick, but I fail to see how that's an argument against a pair of consenting adults from exchanging sex for money without a camera crew filming the transaction.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  If we look at the sex industry as a solid legal contributor to the economy we may be tempted to ignore hidden issues and see such as being put totally right by the legality of the business in question.

But we will never know unless we at least attempt to legalize it, experiment, and see what happens with greater oversight, transparency and less stigmatization.



(29-10-2014 02:47 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Education, of an open type will help relevant to consumer decision making.
Unfortunately, if the mass education reflects the so called rights of vested interests, via all types of consumerism, then such becomes something of a joke with Big Brother replacing the illegal pushers.

Uh, what were you smoking when you typed this? I can't parse what you're trying to get across...


I believe mr woof has left the building.
His return is uncertain at this time. And i certainly wish he's smoking something to take the edge off.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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30-10-2014, 10:17 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2014 10:21 AM by Drunkin Druid.)
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
Intresting but the comment about how men might not rape if they can buy sex is wrong I think. I understand that rape has little to do with sex and more to do with power and violence.

Edit: perhaps I should read more of the thread before I comment. Looks like some have already made the point. A little reinforcement I guess. For you and I.
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05-11-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
So this is gonna be weird.

At one point during my travels after my wife died I ended up working in a Brothel as a security guard and it was an extremely enlightening experience. You learn a lot of things about people you would not expect.

For example:
1.) The clientele is about 80% business men and 10% first time frat boys idiots (the only ones we ever have problems with) and the other 10% are.....female. I can't tell you the number of closeted gay women who are married that came in. We had several regulars actually, because it was safe, discrete and relaxing. It's not the ideal situation but for many of them it kept their marriage together long enough for the kids to move out, which to them was the important thing.

Sketchy, seedy, and anyone looking doped up was just turned away at the door. Every single customer gets a through examination by the girl before anything happens. if she sees anything she does not like you are out the door. We refused customers on a daily basis.

2.) Only about half, give or take, of transactions actually involved intercourse. I'd say about 30% didn't even include the removal of any clothing. You would be surprised how many people just really need to hold someone without having to maneuver all the social interactions to get there.

3.) People like to say people get into this line of work 'casue "it's easy money", and nothing could be further from the truth. The ones who get into the job simply because of the money last about 5 months on average. It is NOT an easy job to do, it can be emotionally and physically taxing, and that's without the constant overhanging threat from the social stigma that can be put on you by society if your friends/family find out.
No one gets disowned or, as sadly happened once, beaten to death by a family member for becoming an engineer.

4.) The girls who get involved in this job willingly (slavery is not cool yo) are probably the most empathetic collection of people I have ever met in my life. They get into this line of work cause they actively enjoy making people feel good, in general and as a person. I've seen more kind and caring treatment of people from prostitutes then I ever have from a church attending grandmother. I can say without a doubt at all that I would much rather see a brothel on every street corner then a church. They are also probably the least judgmental people on the planet.

5.) The vast vast vast VAST majority of girls that worked there when I did had a healthy relationship with both parents. The stereotype of girls with daddy issues becoming prostitutes was about as far from the truth as you could get. They also hated that stereotype. A lot. Like OMG so much haha

People who try and stamp out brothels are idiots, the ones who do it to "protect women" even more so. Clubs are where you get roofied and raped not a brothel, you are more likely to get sexually assaulted in a church.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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05-11-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
Off the beaten path maybe, but in reading through this thread recently, what popped into my head is the double standard often associated with women who enjoy sex. They are dubbed 'whores,' or 'sluts,' or 'nymphos,' while men who enjoy sex or have a variety of partners in their lifetimes, are thought of as cool, players, or it's just business as usual. After all, boys will be boys kinda thing.

That bugs me.

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05-11-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(05-11-2014 11:55 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  Off the beaten path maybe, but in reading through this thread recently, what popped into my head is the double standard often associated with women who enjoy sex. They are dubbed 'whores,' or 'sluts,' or 'nymphos,' while men who enjoy sex or have a variety of partners in their lifetimes, are thought of as cool, players, or it's just business as usual. After all, boys will be boys kinda thing.

That bugs me.

It bugs the fuck outta me too Deidre always has and it's even worse then that too. If you have sex you are a whore but if you don't you are a prude. It's fuckin' silly, and one of my biggest problems with religion, it's stance on female sexuality.

It's done an uncalculable amount of damage down through the ages, both physical and mental.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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05-11-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
I'd rather meet women who'd have slept around a bit honestly - a bit of experience is a damn good thing... Fuck all the haters. I mean, not literally. You can if you want to... And I won't judge you. But... yeah, they're just dicks anyway.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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