Gentlemen and Whores.
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06-11-2014, 08:58 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
My OP looked at aspects of the sex industry.
I have made no attempts to suggest the implementation of draconian measures
Sex, by its very nature is a readily exploitable commodity.
I do not agree that a good many women chose it for any pleasure element.
Nor do I agree that our governing bodies are intent on making prostitution a more viable career.
We need to realise that where some practices are reified other communal needs
may be disadvantaged.
Prioritization of communal values, along with education as to the ramifications
from all questionable behaviors need to be addressed.
Where legalizations do occur the need for ever further insights appear as important.
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06-11-2014, 10:48 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(06-11-2014 07:57 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 07:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm pretty sure some of their clients are only there because they are fantastic conversationalists.

Yeah, it's the same guys that read playboy for the articles Yes

Weeping

I need another dose of Androgel. Weeping

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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07-11-2014, 03:12 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(06-11-2014 07:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 07:44 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  They are all fantastic conversationalists though, requirement of the job is you have to be good with people, and I've had lots of hour long conversations with some of them during the slow hours haha.

I'm pretty sure some of their clients are only there because they are fantastic conversationalists.

A very large amount actually. I got along with one girl there very well as we both shared a near encyclopaedic knowledge of Shakespeare. One of them liked to compose, admittedly on an amateur level, classical music, she had a couple regulars that would just come in and listen to her cello.

They are just ordinary people.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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07-11-2014, 03:42 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(06-11-2014 08:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I do not agree that a good many women chose it for any pleasure element.
Then you are wrong. The vast majority of those there of their own free will that I met enjoy the work a great deal. It's far easier and with much less risk of community back lash to get a temp secretary job or a waitressing gig. It's like any gig, some people just do it cause they need the money but a lot, especially the ones that have been there for awhile, do it cause they enjoy the work.

(06-11-2014 08:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Nor do I agree that our governing bodies are intent on making prostitution a more viable career.
Seeing as how no one made that claim...congratulations I guess? Many governments word legalization laws in such vague and nebulous ways so as to still be able to target sex workers and their customers for even the slightest of imagined infraction.
Governments, even those that pass legalization, are in no way trying to make it a more viable career in fact they are often proactively working against the best interests of the girls.

(06-11-2014 08:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  We need to realise that where some practices are reified other communal needs
may be disadvantaged.
You have yet to offer a single shred of evidence that legalized prostitution in anyway harms the community. You did make some unfounded claims, STI levels for example, which I proved to be false using an example from your own damn country.
I feel it would be rude to call you uninformed, however I also think it would be accurate. You sir are uninformed.
(06-11-2014 08:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Prioritization of communal values
No. We don't do that. You, nor anyone else, has any kind of authority to act as a kind of moral police dictating values. At one time it was considered a communal value to burn witches and own slaves, which is why we do NOT put what the community prefers above the rights and the equitable treatment of minorities.
Their right to be safe, both in the community and in the work place, trumps in every fucking way imaginable the communities moral indignation at their existence. You are putting the values and the comfort of a the bigoted and oppressive majority against the safety of those being oppressed both by the black markets that exist because of criminalization and the general population that can't look past their own bigoted view of the "whores".
You are on the wrong side of this issue as time will bare out.
Churches are much more dangerous to the people in them, and to the communities around, them then Brothels are.

You still have not answered my question by the way. You have actively avoided it twice now and I'll be happy to answer it for you if you are unable or unwilling to do so.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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07-11-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(06-11-2014 07:17 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 05:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  That's an apples pears sort of thing to say.

No it's really not, you are welcome to give an honest answer to the question. Most of the problems faced by prostitutes are are because of criminalization and the stigmatization. There is a reason serial killers tend to target sex works: the police don't expend much of any resources investigating their missing persons cases if they involve a sex worker cause they are not considered a "high priority".

So please I invite you to answer my question.

I appreciate your relatively polite communication and will look at some of the issues you have raised.
My OP was about general issues that arise within the sex industry.
A few accused me of rubbishing women by using the term 'whore'. Actually this was a play on words, as the bulk of what I wrote should have indicated.
My concern was with aspects such as violence, intimidation, health issues, needs, disruption,values, and other ethical considerations within that industry.
As for the legality of bordellos; that issue was not raised.
For some decades I was involved with addiction and lived the sexual life of an alley
cat. The bulk of that fun was well emasculated by the long tern downside. Experience teaches you things you never read about.

I do not see self employed prostitutes as being seen as untouchables when it comes to medical assistance, though there may be instances of this occurring. Where I come from kids have died waiting for an ambulance, possibly due to government underfunding.

As far as employment goes I think you are right in saying that some sex workers (male too) enjoy their work. This may be seen as strange in some instances. Are there not a good many cases of employment in this field because it was the only job available? Should a woman who does not want to work as a prostitute, with say 8% unemployment, be denied welfare assistance? The picture you paint of art and fine music is rare in my view, though I must say I have met some highly intelligent sex workers.

As you worked as a guard for some time I imagine you would have encountered some pretty unpleasant clients. The company saw the need to employ you.You mention trouble occurring; albeit outside. Your employer may have been one of the better ones. While I don't like using stats too much, I have read some where prostitutes have been knocked comatose while working in legal brothels.

I would still maintain that disease is an issue. Sure it can occur outside, swinging. orgies, gay, straight, cheating...you name it. Given that sex workers may be tested once a month, condoms may break, more liberal services provided at a higher cost, this isn't all together re assuring.

I really see education as the key issue here. It has happened with tobacco, should be applied to alcohol, and there have been some inroads in the gambling industry.
Addictive behaviour, where such occurs, needs to be addressed with consumers given reasonable chance to have a good look at the big picture. As it is there are instances of the corporate giants and entrepreneurs running rough shod over society. When problems arise they simply come up wth some further ad hoc patch ups.
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07-11-2014, 06:30 PM
Re: Gentlemen and Whores.
I don't look down on the women who work in brothels because they're doing for money something they enjoy. Not as much as with a lover. It's like being in an amateur band and taking gigs at bar mitzvahs, birthday parties, and that sort of thing. Sure, when you play at the best dive in town you love it more and get paid less. But dude... you rocked.

I think it should be legal because from what I understand, the legal ones have far fewer diseases and drug problems.

For some reason, in my head, a person who legally charges for sex with 20 people makes more sense than someone who has 20 one-night stands. No real logical reason, but I do.

And as for safety... A pneumatic nail gun is worse than a raging erection.
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09-11-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
Did I already mention that in the US the only difference between illegal prostitution and legal pornography is whether your smart phone's camera is turned on or not? I'm sure I have. Tongue

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-11-2014, 09:07 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2014 09:10 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A few accused me of rubbishing women by using the term 'whore'. Actually this was a play on words, as the bulk of what I wrote should have indicated.
First off that's not how a play on words works, and secondly as has been evidenced by most people in this thread no one took it that way. You are using a term that is UNIVERSALLY regarded as demeaning and derogatory in a context of conversation where it can only be applied in a negative manner.
That said I have no idea why you brought that up after quoting me cause I don't recall ever taking issue with it. I'm well aware of your various bigotries, but I don't need to point it out every time. Drinking Beverage

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  My concern was with aspects such as violence, intimidation, health issues, needs, disruption,values, and other ethical considerations within that industry.
None of which are exclusive to legal prostitution. None of which are even higher the the community average and many of which are actually lower. I've already shown why the "values and ethics" arguments are worthless, so you can stop with that absolute dross.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for the legality of bordellos; that issue was not raised.
Not only was it raised by multiple people, including the person you just quoted, but it's 100% relevant to the conversation.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  For some decades I was involved with addiction and lived the sexual life of an alley
cat. The bulk of that fun was well emasculated by the long tern downside. Experience teaches you things you never read about.
Basic logic and tolerance not being among those things it seems. You are trying to equate your life of addiction and sleeping around with that of a sex work and they are not the same thing at all. How you chose to live your life does not give you any special knowledge into the lives of others.
How does your life of addiction and pantslessness offer any kind of relevance to the topic at hand? Did you use condoms 100% of the time? Did you get checked once a month MINIMUM? Were the women sober every time?
Your life story is irrelevant here.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I do not see self employed prostitutes as being seen as untouchables when it comes to medical assistance, though there may be instances of this occurring. Where I come from kids have died waiting for an ambulance, possibly due to government underfunding.
1.) Nobody said that they were untouchable when it came to medical assistance, if they go for medical treatment they get treated all the same, so what is your point?
2.) Kids dying from lack of government funding (dubious claim but I'll go with it) has utterly no relevance to the subject at hand except for...
3.) Making prostitution legal and taxing it could help alleviate under funding now couldn't it?Drinking Beverage

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As far as employment goes I think you are right in saying that some sex workers (male too) enjoy their work. This may be seen as strange in some instances.
My favorite part about this is that you don't explain what is strange about it, what those instances are, to whom it applies and and why it would be seen as such. It's basically a worthless sentence with nothing backing it up, it's a claim that's dropped there with no value as you move on.
People who enjoy sex and money being paid money to have sex and enjoying their work is "strange". Not fuckin' really.Drinking Beverage

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Are there not a good many cases of employment in this field because it was the only job available?
Really? Are we really doing this again. *sigh*
That is the case in literally every single low skill job across the entire world, they are ALL employed with some people who would rather be doing something else. Things that are universally true across all groups, can't be used to persecute a specific group. That is like the 5th time I've explained this to you, and I'm starting to have a hard time not chalking your entire argument as nothing more then an unreasonable bigotry.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Should a woman who does not want to work as a prostitute, with say 8% unemployment, be denied welfare assistance?
Find me a single person in this whole thread that made the claim that an unemployed woman should be denied welfare access to keep them out of prostitution. No one made that claim. No one. High unemployment causing people to engage in prostitution is not a mark against legal prostitution, it's a mark against high unemployment.
Your point is neither in contention by anyone nor does it have any relevance to the topic at hand.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The picture you paint of art and fine music is rare in my view, though I must say I have met some highly intelligent sex workers.
How did you determine it's rarity? I feel compelled to point out that by admitting there are intelligent sex workers but claiming they are rare you are also making the claim that the rest are not smart.
I don't think you know one goddamn thing about this subject, I really don't.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As you worked as a guard for some time I imagine you would have encountered some pretty unpleasant clients. The company saw the need to employ you.You mention trouble occurring; albeit outside. Your employer may have been one of the better ones.
Actually I didn't, the vast majority of clients we had were well behaved, tipped well enough,and did not cause trouble at all, because getting arrested for assault at a brothel is a hard thing to explain to your significant other. I was hired on as a guard because the place makes a lot of money, the majority of it cash. Theft was a bigger concern the assault of the girls. You have watched way to many movies.
Secondly companies also employ security guards to guard empty warehouses. And sky scrappers. And malls. And fucking go-kart tracks. This is not a valid point woof and again is almost universally true of all companies in the history of ever.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  While I don't like using stats too much, I have read some where prostitutes have been knocked comatose while working in legal brothels.
You read somewhere? Good for you, you will excuse me if I don't lay down my sword and concede defeat because you read something one time somewhere. I will however entertain that claim long enough to point out that it's not really a good argument even if it's true.
In 2013 in your country there were 187 workplace deaths. There were 6 deaths in retail work alone. 21% of health professionals, teachers and police working in rural and remote Australia reported physical violence in the workplace. Between 1989 and 1992 in Australia 50 people were the victim of work place homicide with 76% of them being male.

The fact that assaults can happen in legal brothels is completely irrelevant to the question of if they should be legal. Legal recourse against the person doing the assault IS possible if they are legal, but it's far far far less likely if it's not. You are more likely to come to personal harm if your a damn farmer or construction worker.
You don't have a point here Woof.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would still maintain that disease is an issue. Sure it can occur outside, swinging. orgies, gay, straight, cheating...you name it. Given that sex workers may be tested once a month, condoms may break, more liberal services provided at a higher cost, this isn't all together re assuring.
Again with the universals, for fuck sake.
I've already shown you are wrong. Twice. Legal Brothels have an STI rate at or below the community average. That average includes monogamous married couples by the way. Drinking Beverage Most people don't get tested for STI's ever let alone once a month, the general public is far less likely to even use a condom then any legal brothel.
You are either fear mongering or just trying to justify your bigotry at this point. This argument from you has been soundly resolved against you 3 times now, you are welcome to repeat it again but it will still be a worthless point.

So please explain why you think disease is a bigger concern among the group of people who statistically have it less then you are among the general population that statistically have it more, because right now it looks like a shitty justification for a personal bias against a group of people.
If you think disease is a valid justification for prostitution continuing to be illegal then it's an EQUAL godsdamn justification for sex being illegal.

(07-11-2014 03:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I really see education as the key issue here. It has happened with tobacco, should be applied to alcohol, and there have been some inroads in the gambling industry.
Addictive behaviour, where such occurs, needs to be addressed with consumers given reasonable chance to have a good look at the big picture. As it is there are instances of the corporate giants and entrepreneurs running rough shod over society. When problems arise they simply come up wth some further ad hoc patch ups.
That's a shockingly average mini rant which is well and all but it's got nothing to do with the subject at hand at all. I do agree that education is good. The general public and you need to be educated that legal prostitution does not have any demonstrably negative effects on society, that people involved in the sex industry are magnitudes of order safer and healthier working in a legal and well regulated brothel and as far away from the black market as possible.

You might notice I've been slightly less polite this time around and that's because, for the third fucking time, you ignored answering a very simple question and now I'll have to answer it for you.
If we were to criminalized and stigmatized the profession of Architecture and Architects, in the same way we do sex workers, then their lives would be made immeasurably worse. If we worked to legalize prostitution and educate people to the point of no longer stigmatizing sex workers their lives would be made immeasurably better.

It was a simple question with a simple fucking answer mate. The fact you don't like what the answer says about your stance is too damn bad.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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14-11-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
WhiskeyDebates, that was a fine post. Fine!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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14-11-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Gentlemen and Whores.
I didn't read this whole thing.

Woofie, you are addicted to ranting about everything and anything you can possibly squeeze into the category addiction.

What is next, chocolate, jogging, lifting weights, sugar, masturbation, gardening, listening to music?

You can get addicted to anything and everything, even ranting about addiction.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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