German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
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14-05-2016, 12:56 PM
German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe...SKCN0Y50DY

Oh well, looks like I won't be returning to Germany anytime soon. Undecided

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14-05-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 12:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe...SKCN0Y50DY

Oh well, looks like I won't be returning to Germany anytime soon. Undecided

Why?

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14-05-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
The program is very expensive, but seems to be sound on paper. It provides refugee with help in language classes, help to find work, insure some decent housing and even psychological help. Its pretty ambitious, but it might provide good results.

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14-05-2016, 05:58 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 01:08 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Why?
I have no interest in living in a country that places the needs of foreigners above the needs of its own people.

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14-05-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
So you'd rather be a foreigner in a country that ignores the needs of foreigners and dislikes them in general? Tongue

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14-05-2016, 06:10 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 05:58 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(14-05-2016 01:08 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Why?
I have no interest in living in a country that places the needs of foreigners above the needs of its own people.

How do you come to the conclusion that germany places the needs of foreigners above the needs of its own people?

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14-05-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 06:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  So you'd rather be a foreigner in a country that ignores the needs of foreigners and dislikes them in general? Tongue
Those aren't the only two choices, but yes, I would rather live as a foreigner in a country like that.

(14-05-2016 06:10 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  How do you come to the conclusion that germany places the needs of foreigners above the needs of its own people?
Just to give you one of many examples: The article mentions that a significant amount of money is going to be spent to help these foreigners find work in Germany. Why isn't that same money being spent on helping unemployed Germans find work?

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14-05-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 06:10 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  How do you come to the conclusion that germany places the needs of foreigners above the needs of its own people?
Because that is what Germany does. People there generally are unhappy when they see that every foreigner that enters the country will get everything they need but a german citizen in need will not get the same treatment. It's very unfair. Spend on everybody but your own citizens.
German government is scared shitless that Germany's reputation might sink again, now that they got it to finally be a generally liked country.

Therefore now, although they took in huge masses of refugees already, they still take more and more and more and therefore spend more and more and more, while other countries aren't doing the same. It is very frustrating that Germany gives in to this type of pressure.

Yes, those refugees have to go somewhere. I know. I am not saying they should not be taken in. But how about directing them to countries who have not reached that level of saturation yet?
It is not a very fair distribution of where all the refugees are being led.
There are enough countries that would have way more space (and at this point also funds) than Germany. Look at Sweden or Russia or such. Where population density is relatively low compared. Lead them there, build nice big camps in the less populated areas and take care of them there. I am sure everybody is way more willing to donate and have things delivered to those places than keep overpopulating such a relatively small country.

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14-05-2016, 08:34 PM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
(14-05-2016 06:32 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Just to give you one of many examples: The article mentions that a significant amount of money is going to be spent to help these foreigners find work in Germany. Why isn't that same money being spent on helping unemployed Germans find work?

Because refugees obviously face greater challenges to find work than other Germans. Plus, its not like there is no program to help Germans who are out of works. Finally, if you want to reduce the overall cost of helping those refugees, finding them work quickly is the best way.

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15-05-2016, 04:02 AM
RE: German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020
Servus, and pofta buna! Big Grin

(14-05-2016 06:51 PM)Leela Wrote:  Because that is what Germany does. People there generally are unhappy ...

People generally didnt engage in major riots when the refugees arrived (apart from the usual xenophobic suspects towards the borders towards Poland and Czechia). We had lots of people working as volunteers helping to register, feed the refugees and give them clothing.
But, yes, we do have a new party now that cashes in on the xenophobia generated by the fearmongers and on the frustration with mainstram politics (see: Trump). They are gaining a lot lately amongst the ignorant. They are not even cashing in on poor (unemployed) germans who suffer from the real effects of the refugee crisis if there are any at all.
That is the problem, fearmongering and exploitation (dont we learn from history how that works?), not the refugees themselves. Refugees are tools to the really dangerous people.
Its hard to prove (if you dont speak german), but compare the official program of the "AfD" to what (and how!) their representatives actually have to say in public. I am not going to make further comparisons to the early 30s now, but they are extremely populistic.
They now probably will have 15-20% of votes nation wide, but 60% of their voters admit to only vote for them out of protest. So maybe less than 10% of germans deliberately vote for a party that directly attacks the general policy of how we are currently dealing with the problem of asylum seeing.

Quote:when they see that every foreigner that enters the country will get everything they need but a german citizen in need will not get the same treatment. It's very unfair. Spend on everybody but your own citizens.
Do you have some facts to support your assertion? No german has been starving due to (syrian) refugees.
If you really think that foreigners are in any way preferred to germans by the government then you are the victim of too much propaganda.
Since 1990 germans are paying a "solidarity tax" Solidaritätszuschlag (75€ for me) each month, which was introduced to pay off war in Iraq (1991) and support countries in eastern europe amongst other things. Western germans paid 94% of this, eastern germans 6% over the last 25y, while the population ratio is 3/1. So if i should be pissed off about somebody, then certainly not these poor few refugees, but rather eastern germans who were obviously preferred. Or... eastern european countries in general whom we seem to have financially supported substancially for 25y. Do you want that?
The EU (with germany being the single biggest contributor) is heavily supporting the poorer of its members, Romania being one of them. Do you want us to focus more on our own citizens, of which a lot in eastern germany certainly could need still a lot of help? Do you really want that?


We can even go farther if you want: We could stop supporting half of europe, fix eastern germanys economy, use the heavy surplus in production for building up a strong(er) army again to keep us safe from all those foreigners trying to take our wealth, and then, finally, start running over your sorry asses again.
Do.You.Want.That?

The highest unemployment is in eastern germany, where the least foreigners are. If any part of our population is living off our social welfare its germans. I am not being "racist" against eastern germans here, i know very well what led to this situation after 1990. These people i am talking about werent the root problem back then (most of them werent alive even), but they are now the result.

(14-05-2016 06:51 PM)Leela Wrote:  German government is scared shitless that Germany's reputation might sink again, now that they got it to finally be a generally liked country.

If the german government would be thinking we are engaged in a popularity contest, then germany wouldnt force countries like Greece to keep in line with the EU.
If the german government would be thinking we are engaged in a popularity contest, then the reunification in 1990 would have never been enforced by the german government.
If the german government would be thinking we are engaged in a popularity contest, we wouldnt have declined taking part in the 2003 Iraq war, making Rumsfeld compare Germany to Lybia and Cuba.
If the german government would be thinking we are engaged in a popularity contest, then we would be bragging about the billions we are basically giving for free for years to poor EU countries like Romania.


Ohh, talking about Romania: I was there (once) and loved the country and people. I am chatting every day with my co-workes in Sibiu. Many of them are better engineers with a better attitude than many of my german colleagues, and i keep telling this to both parties (which again, i wouldnt do, if i thought i was engaged in a popularity contest).
I am saying this because you may not like what i am going to say now:
From talking to them i also know how different/distorted your view can be of the things going on in other countries (hell i learned this about my view on Romania as well) due to the picture you get from your own official sources as well as media.

The main thing german government currently is scared about is the Turkish Sul...president. Major concessions are currently made towards Erdogan in order to silence his persistent demands for legal prosecution of a german comedian, pointing to a outdated but still valid law. This in return however is related to the refugee crisis, since Merkel also wants him to shore up his borders towards Syria, since everyone else doesnt seem to give a shit (but just shoring up his own borders like Greece, Hungary, Austria, etc.).
Mabye the underlying problem is that Turkey wants to enter the EU for ages now, with Germany being a main hindrance pointing out the violation of human rights all over the place in Turkey, and now that nobody gives a fuck about refugees but Germany, Turkey is able to apply pressure?
Maybe refugees arent the real problem, but a tool for Turkey (-ish government) too?
But i am quite confident that one thing is not a major problem: Germany and its attitude towards the situation. Thats just what you should believe, because Germany is such a good scapegoat. Smoke grenades, everywhere!

(14-05-2016 06:51 PM)Leela Wrote:  Therefore now, although they took in huge masses of refugees already, they still take more and more and more and therefore spend more and more and more, while other countries aren't doing the same. It is very frustrating that Germany gives in to this type of pressure.

Are you seriously blaming Germany for having the will and money to deal with human misery in other parts of the world? That Germany makes other countries maybe look bad?

Number of refugees in Germany:
April: 16.000
March: 20.000
February: 60.000
January: 90.000
December: 120.000
November: 206.000

German border police currently reports ca. 200 people arriving each day, with a downward trend, sometimes none at all: Repent, the end is near! Consider

France:
January-April: 22.000
2015 total: 65.000
and France currently claims that it cant take any more refugees at the moment.

Dont you see the irony of the fact that Germany was hated during the most part of the 20th century for being xenophobic, (too) agressive towards other nations and our people having a too arrogant attitue in general towards people from other countries and cultures?
Now, we are the only country in the EU who really gives a fucking shit about some guys running from a horrible war in a horrible part of the world (go ask your grandparents how horrible wars can be), and again everyone is bitching about Germany. Every day i am reading this i am more and more inclined to reply with a "fuck you too. Wait for our next invasion, then you have something to complain" (which i already did in a paragraph above Blush ).

You are frustrated that Germany seemingly is giving in to pressure of tens of thousands people fleeing from war? This frustrates me too, but from a very different perspective as you can see.

(14-05-2016 06:51 PM)Leela Wrote:  Yes, those refugees have to go somewhere. I know. I am not saying they should not be taken in. But how about directing them to countries who have not reached that level of saturation yet?

Because those (EU) countries are bitching around that they are saturated in the face of the fact that Germany already has taken care of most of the problem.

Example: France agreed (earlier this year, itbackpeddled to zero, see above) to take 15.000 refugees over the next 3 years (thats the ballpark, please look up exact numbers yourself) while in my hometown alone, ca. 10.000 are sitting in a single camp (empty, unused former US army barracks, before anyone is gonna bitch about lack of apartments for germans in Germany).
Hungary: Need i really to tell you about Hungary?
Austria? Ex Yugoslavia? Greece? Do i really need to tell you what the official policies of their governments are? But Germany is the problem, eh?

(14-05-2016 06:51 PM)Leela Wrote:  It is not a very fair distribution of where all the refugees are being led.
There are enough countries that would have way more space (and at this point also funds) than Germany. Look at Sweden or Russia or such. Where population density is relatively low compared. Lead them there, build nice big camps in the less populated areas and take care of them there. I am sure everybody is way more willing to donate and have things delivered to those places than keep overpopulating such a relatively small country.
Now we are talking!
What and how much is every country actually able to do, and how much is everyone actually willing to do? Am i the only one who senses a heavy disproportion of those factors with quite a few countries? Germany doesnt seem to be one of them.

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