Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
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16-02-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
Quote:There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell.

--Sam Harris Letter to a Christian Nation

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16-02-2014, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2014 10:55 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(16-02-2014 02:29 PM)Logisch Wrote:  
(16-02-2014 02:24 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  You should get off your period. Yeah, the fact that I have mentioned it before in a previous post means I say it "100 times a day".It's not called a lack of self-esteem, it's called being realistic and not acting like an arrogant prick. Does the idea that a God didn't create the universe just for you depress you? That's certainly the way your comment comes across.

I think some people take offense to it and perhaps "don't get it" - when I say that... what I mean is that when many people say we aren't special in the universe, it's from a point of intrinsic purpose. We are still the only life we know of, the only part of the universe that as far as we know is conscious.

I mean let's also look at the facts that if the entire universe is all composed of the same matter, that in a literal way, we are the universe itself being able to understand itself. That does not necessarily imply intrinsic purpose, but it does make us unique (as far as we know).

I think some people don't understand those implications, and take offense when we say we aren't intrinsically given a purpose. It makes them not feel special. But at the same time, life itself is pretty special.

More of a fun question: Does the universe care about our existence? We're made of the same matter and energy as the rest of the universe. The answer to that question lies in how we answer it. We are the universe. Even from a scientific perspective Wink

I think Neil deGrasse Tyson said it best when he said that it would be incredibly arrogant on our part to think that we are the only form of life that exists in the universe.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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16-02-2014, 11:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2014 11:18 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
Until we get a percentage on the likely hood of Abiogenesis, then its arrogant to assume non terrestrial life as a certainty.
There may well be a trillion chain of events that need line up for this condition that has not and never will occur elsewhere.

Although to be fair, new solar systems are getting birthed continuously, so with more dice getting added all the time, i can see how people say its inevitable.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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17-02-2014, 07:10 AM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(16-02-2014 11:14 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Until we get a percentage on the likely hood of Abiogenesis, then its arrogant to assume non terrestrial life as a certainty.
Though Abiogenesis still holds more water than the God hypothesis.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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17-02-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
You forgot to quote The Kinks - "I'm just like everybody else ... I'm *not* just like everybody else "

We *are* all special ....and also prolly we're not ... both!

[Unless that's just me?]

Moodie x
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17-02-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(16-02-2014 11:14 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Until we get a percentage on the likely hood of Abiogenesis, then its arrogant to assume non terrestrial life as a certainty.
There may well be a trillion chain of events that need line up for this condition that has not and never will occur elsewhere.

Although to be fair, new solar systems are getting birthed continuously, so with more dice getting added all the time, i can see how people say its inevitable.

I think you fail to grasp the overwhelming size and scope of the universe. Even something that is incredibly rare or has a tiny likelihood of occurring becomes a common event on a large enough scale. The universe certainly qualifies as a large enough scale.

The best estimates of how many stars are in the observable universe is in the sextillion range... Even if the average odds for the existence of life were in the trillions to one, there would still be billions of star systems with life.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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17-02-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(17-02-2014 08:07 AM)Moodie Wrote:  You forgot to quote The Kinks - "I'm just like everybody else ... I'm *not* just like everybody else "

We *are* all special ....and also prolly we're not ... both!

[Unless that's just me?]

Moodie x

Good one. Thumbsup




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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17-02-2014, 10:43 AM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
Looking at the proposition that in god creating existence gives it meaning, I have to ask what meaning? The only thing I can find mention of this in the bable is that it pleases him. So the meaning in this way of thinking is the whole of existence is to give pleasure to its creator. In other words that reduces all of existence to having no more relevance than a mint chocolate to go with a cup or coffee. All the suffering, and anguish of countless lives just to please a deity. In truth I cannot think of anything more fatuous.
On the other hand in a universe which exists with no agenda there is a possibility of creating within it some meaning hat stands up to scrutiny.
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18-02-2014, 01:26 PM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(16-02-2014 01:39 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Seriously, creationists need to get over this idea that the universe was specifically created just for us. The truth is, we aren't jack shit in the scheme of the universe. If we were to gather every grain of sand on Earth, our planet would not represent a single grain of sand among all the other stars and planets in the universe. If the sun blows up tomorrow and blows our planet to bits, it won't mean a damn thing to the rest of the universe.
Howsabout if we get over it when you guys get over it? I.e., it's contradictory to call god evil for allowing suffering, but to also say we don't mean jack shit.
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18-02-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Get Over Yourself - You're Not That Special
(18-02-2014 01:26 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Howsabout if we get over it when you guys get over it? I.e., it's contradictory to call god evil for allowing suffering, but to also say we don't mean jack shit.

Your conceding of WCJ's point is noted.

And your counterclaim is Non Sequitur.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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