Getting my CCL tomorrow.
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30-05-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 10:46 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 07:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  He got out of the car with a bat and walked up to her window. My hand began to slide on my 9mm.

That sounds like a typical American solution to my European ears.

A typical Scottish solution would be to roll your sleeves up, get out the car and start walking towards the aggressor.

I have to say, 9mm gun against someone wielding a baseball bat? Isn't that overkill? It wasn't like he was carrying a knife.

This is why the US is 95-6-6 in wars with our involvement.

Source.

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30-05-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 10:46 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 07:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  He got out of the car with a bat and walked up to her window. My hand began to slide on my 9mm.

That sounds like a typical American solution to my European ears.

A typical Scottish solution would be to roll your sleeves up, get out the car and start walking towards the aggressor.

I have to say, 9mm gun against someone wielding a baseball bat? Isn't that overkill? It wasn't like he was carrying a knife.

Sorry, Mathilda, that's a really crappy argument.

I'm 5'4" - if the guy with the bat is 6'4", what do I do? Let the woman get beaten?

No, the mere threat of my firearm is usually convincing enough.
If he's too stupid, or angry, or high, or drunk to figure that out and desist, he gets shot.

He's carrying a deadly weapon, I'm leveling the playing field.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-05-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 11:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Sorry, Mathilda, that's a really crappy argument.

I'm 5'4" - if the guy with the bat is 6'4", what do I do? Let the woman get beaten?

No, the mere threat of my firearm is usually convincing enough.
If he's too stupid, or angry, or high, or drunk to figure that out and desist, he gets shot.

He's carrying a deadly weapon, I'm leveling the playing field.

The gun becomes a liability in such an encounter. I found that even with open hand martial arts when I was training 9 - 11 hours a week 15 years ago. I started to get worried that I might end up killing someone with a single punch in such a situation which is then why I started learning to use locks and ways of disabling people. Unfortunately I was never that confident in my ability to restrain someone.

A gun is in no way levelling the playing field. It is overkill. You are also over-estimating what you can do with a baseball bat which is essentially a long range blunt melee weapon.

You don't need a gun to talk someone down. You need to be confident, placatory and refuse to back down. This is not a gender specific strategy either. Even just the ability to run is enough to save that the woman in that situation. Or stay in the car and attract his attention and slowly drive off and distract him.You bring a gun into that situation and you are setting yourself up to go on trial.
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30-05-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
How broken does your society have to be that you feel the need to carry a gun at all times? I've lived in three countries and not once have I ever found myself in a situation that would be improved by carrying a gun. Nor has anyone else I know.

I rather like countries that don't encourage an arms race between the criminals and the paranoid.
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30-05-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 11:47 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  How broken does your society have to be that you feel the need to carry a gun at all times? I've lived in three countries and not once have I ever found myself in a situation that would be improved by carrying a gun. Nor has anyone else I know.

I rather like countries that don't encourage an arms race between the criminals and the paranoid.

It is amazing how most of the 1st world manages to live without being armed 24/7.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-05-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 11:40 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 11:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Sorry, Mathilda, that's a really crappy argument.

I'm 5'4" - if the guy with the bat is 6'4", what do I do? Let the woman get beaten?

No, the mere threat of my firearm is usually convincing enough.
If he's too stupid, or angry, or high, or drunk to figure that out and desist, he gets shot.

He's carrying a deadly weapon, I'm leveling the playing field.

The gun becomes a liability in such an encounter. I found that even with open hand martial arts when I was training 9 - 11 hours a week 15 years ago. I started to get worried that I might end up killing someone with a single punch in such a situation which is then why I started learning to use locks and ways of disabling people. Unfortunately I was never that confident in my ability to restrain someone.

A gun is in no way levelling the playing field. It is overkill. You are also over-estimating what you can do with a baseball bat which is essentially a long range blunt melee weapon.

You don't need a gun to talk someone down. You need to be confident, placatory and refuse to back down. This is not a gender specific strategy either. Even just the ability to run is enough to save that the woman in that situation. Or stay in the car and attract his attention and slowly drive off and distract him.You bring a gun into that situation and you are setting yourself up to go on trial.

I can't run, so there's that.

Again, I'm 5'4", the other guy is 6'4" - he outreaches me with said melee weapon.

I did not say I would shoot or even draw the weapon immediately.

The mere presence of a witness, especially one who clearly makes himself known may end the confrontation.

But, guess what? That doesn't always work.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-05-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
Having the superior weapon or skills, rule at the end of the day..... in any country.

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30-05-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 11:53 AM)Chas Wrote:  I can't run, so there's that.

Again, I'm 5'4", the other guy is 6'4" - he outreaches me with said melee weapon.

I did not say I would shoot or even draw the weapon immediately.

The mere presence of a witness, especially one who clearly makes himself known may end the confrontation.

But, guess what? That doesn't always work.

And guess what, in Britain we have baseball bats but no guns and we still get by resolving such situations without anyone getting hurt. You don't need a gun to be a witness. And if it does come to violence, the baseball bat won't necessarily win against an unarmed opponent, even one that is smaller.

My point about the bat being a long range melee weapon is that, like with Karate, that range disappears in a heartbeat in a real encounter.

A gun is overkill for an encounter with a baseball bat.
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30-05-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 11:56 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Having the superior weapon or skills, rule at the end of the day..... in any country.

Only if you go out assuming that it will always end in a fight. In which case why carry something that will see you on a manslaughter charge?
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30-05-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Getting my CCL tomorrow.
(30-05-2014 09:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...
As an atheist and skeptic, you should know this. I just follow the evidence.

And I am saying that you may not have been aware of all the evidence and all the potential alternative scenarios.

Humans are very good at pattern recognition. False positives / negatives have been known to occur... confirmation bias... misinformation effect etc.

Can't you feel a 'KC Law moment' coming atcha?




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