Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
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04-09-2017, 06:45 PM
Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
I'm sitting here unable to sleep with anger. About a month ago I went round to the home of a 92 year old lady we are looking after. We've hired a young Philipina lady to look after her in her own home and the carer has moved in with her 2 year old daughter. The old lady is legally blind and almost deaf and can hardly walk. She has no relatives who are able to look after her so my wife an I agreed to take responsibility for her. I went to the house with my dogs, both lively young Alsatians and they chased a cat across the street then chased off a dog. The neighbour came out and as I went into the house with the dogs, the guy, a Muslim, started shouting at me in Turkish.

I went out onto the street and asked him to calm down and he kept shouting at me and then he hit me in the face. A few other men came up and grabbed him and he just went into a rage and picked up a fruit box outside his shop and tried to throw it at me. The others told me to go inside so I did and left them to deal with him.

Over the last two weeks we went back to the UK to help clear out my mother-in-law's house as she is now in a care home. We got a call from the carer who was staying with the old lady at our house so she could look after our dogs and she said that the kids next door, also Muslims, had been throwing rocks onto our property while she was doing the gardening. She has the 2 year old there.

The first incident has to do with the next door neighbour having three dogs tied up at the back of the old lady's garden and one of them is not secure so it, an Alsatian, comes into the garden and terrorises the old lady and the carer. It also attacked my dogs and mine rounded on it and subdued it.

I can't fathom why the kids throw rocks onto our property but when I was in our pool I saw there were stones and lumps of mud in it which must have been thrown into it.

The attitude here, among the locals who are all Muslims, is that they can do what they like and you just have to put up with it. We have a private road going across the front of our property which is on our land but is a right of way to the neighbour's property. The kids walk up to our property and torment our dogs with sticks through the fence and mock my wife from their house. They also tie a rope around their cat and hang it from their roof terrace and the parents allow them to roam around from 4 am until morning outside our house talking loudly and waking us up.

The problem is endemic and part of the culture. What I've realised is that Muslims are universally racist. They see themselves as superior to non-Muslims and feel they can treat non-Muslims in any way they want with no come-back on them so it's perfectly ok for them to do what they want to non-Muslims and no one in their community will take sides against them in any dispute with a non-Muslim. They all rally round and protect each other and justify what they do.

It made me realise that this is a serious problem with Islam and it gave me an insight into what happens if you have a whole population who consider themselves to be "free riders". What I mean is that they consider that they can depart from what the rest of the world considers to be ethical treatment of others, and that they can and should be able to get away with it. What happens when a whole society behaves this way? The typical example of what a free rider is, used in philosophy classes, is someone who waters his lawn during a hosepipe ban in a drought. Where you have an honour system, which can't be policed, you have to behave in the same way as everyone else, or the system breaks down. You could end up with no drinking water if everyone waters their lawns.

On a large scale, you have a group of people, Muslims for instance, who know that the Christian world revolves around the principle of treating others the same way as you would want to be treated yourself. This means you don't discriminate and you don't persecute minorities or any "others". But, they do just that.

So, what happens to societies like that? initially, they roll over those who "turn the other cheek" and let them get on with their religious practices, not realising that it means these people will abuse them and subjugate them. But, when it gets to a critical point where people outside Islam realise they are being abused, they push back. What I notice now, living in the Near East, is a long process over centuries of this problem unfolding. The Ottoman Empire spread out from Turkey all over the Near and Middle East, North Africa, Spain, Eastern Europe, Central Asia and into India and even into Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and China. Eventually, there was a push back because the locals didn't appreciate being abused by people who universally treated them like lesser beings.

The result of this is quite striking because now we have a world where Islam has been ghettoized, if that's a word. India split up with Muslims being forced out. Lebanon has a "confessionalist" constitution which requires the President always be Christian, Yugoslavia split up with Muslims being isolated in Bosnia. Cyprus is divided after the Muslims were pushed out by the Greeks who had been oppressed and disenfranchised for centuries. Then there's Gaza and the West Bank.

The problem is that you just can't live alongside these folks because they are indoctrinated from birth into thinking they are not just superior, but that no one else counts at all. There's no recognition in Islam of equal rights among religions.

It's been an eye-opener to experience this kind of ingrained racism up close from the perspective of a "victim". It's hard to see because as a Westerner I don't see myself as being capable of ever being discriminated against. But, it's insidious and after a few years you realise it's all around you and almost inescapable. You can't confront it individually with these people because they have no moral compass. Their religion is immoral in a secular sense.

I have these horrible thoughts of going round and having it out with the neighbours or going to the police, but I feel powerless. I am getting just a little sense of what it feels like to be "black" and how powerless and hopeless they must feel. Where I differ is that I can walk out of this area and be away from these people. They can't. They are so hated that they are stuck here with their prejudices and their dead economy that no one wants to invest in because, over the years, people who have lived with them have figured them out and want nothing to do with them.

I don't know, I really don't. I had to write this because I was outside thinking about throwing stones at my neighbour's windows but that would just have made things worse. What a situation...
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04-09-2017, 08:09 PM
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
(04-09-2017 06:45 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I don't know, I really don't.

Neither does anyone else. Wish I had something more worthwhile to say.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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04-09-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
Wow. That would make me utterly furious! Hell, it makes me furious just READING it. I feel for you, I really do. I've had some sucky-assed neighbors from time to time, non-Muslim, just good 'ol American redneck trash but none of them have ever hauled off and hit me. I gotta say though, hitting me would be an INSTANT call to the police. No free pass from me on that one, ever, no matter who struck me. Are the police there no good at ALL in intervening in a calming way? I mean, I'd be scared to death for the two-year-old.

I don't know who said it but there a two quotes that come to mind that go something like this:
What you allow is what will continue.
You teach people how to treat you based on what you accept, what you refuse to accept, and what you reinforce.

I join evenheathen in saying I wish I had something more worthwhile to say. I just think if I tried to let that ride I would just wind up all the more furious until I probably finally exploded in a majorly enraged redneck violent way myself. Which would probably not end at all well for anyone.

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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05-09-2017, 01:14 AM
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
This is a facet of evolution manifesting in social politics.

Change the labels and you get the British during empire, the Romans, both Czarist and Soviet Russia etc. and before I got to the end of the OP I was thinking Jim Crow too.

And at the individual level everyone is just trying to muddle through and "there but for the grace of ..." whichever deity.

The only answer is safety in numbers.

Unsure

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13-09-2017, 12:12 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2017 12:33 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
(04-09-2017 09:21 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  Wow. That would make me utterly furious! Hell, it makes me furious just READING it. I feel for you, I really do. I've had some sucky-assed neighbors from time to time, non-Muslim, just good 'ol American redneck trash but none of them have ever hauled off and hit me. I gotta say though, hitting me would be an INSTANT call to the police. No free pass from me on that one, ever, no matter who struck me. Are the police there no good at ALL in intervening in a calming way? I mean, I'd be scared to death for the two-year-old.

I don't know who said it but there a two quotes that come to mind that go something like this:
What you allow is what will continue.
You teach people how to treat you based on what you accept, what you refuse to accept, and what you reinforce.

I join evenheathen in saying I wish I had something more worthwhile to say. I just think if I tried to let that ride I would just wind up all the more furious until I probably finally exploded in a majorly enraged redneck violent way myself. Which would probably not end at all well for anyone.

You're right actually. The kids were throwing stones into our property two mornings ago. My wife went out onto the balcony and shouted at them and then I went down and had a shout too. The parents obviously could hear and looked out. These people have about half an acre of land but the kids are playing up against our fence. Playing involves throwing stones into our land. The girl, about 8, was throwing them this time and I told them to go away. The boy, about 12, denied throwing anything so I just called him a liar until he went.

I'd go to the police but I don't speak Turkish. The problem becomes that the locals will just lie about what happened and since they don't understand me, I can't persuade the police that I'm right. I won't even know what is being said about me. Once they gang up on you, they can do what they like and it becomes impossible to do anything about it.

At the old lady's house, I'd been to speak to the neighbour about securing his dog so it couldn't come into the garden and he nodded "ok" but did nothing. When I went round one day, the dog was in the garden, barking and mine were inside. I couldn't talk to the old lady for all the noise. I got fed up and opened the doors to let mine out and initially the other dog chased them into a corner. Then the more viscious of mine turned and grabbed the dog around the stomach and started shaking it and my other dog grabbed it round the neck and held it to the ground and stood over it until it calmed down.

It was quite a sight to watch, like a pack going after prey and the other dog wasn't hurt, just lay on its back with its paws up in the air. It was pure animal domination. In the end, my dog let go and stood there looking around, "smiling" with the neighbour's dog between his front legs on its back. For my neighbour, I figure that this made him realize he couldn't take over the garden for his dogs and I wasn't going to waste my time with police and taking him to court. So, he snapped out of frustration. But it showed that he just figured he had the right to walk all over us.

I knew when I walked out to see him exactly what it was about and since there were people about, I kept my calm and just let him take a swing. He looked like he was going to rupture his spleen he was so upset.

The police don't do anything here anyway. Most things like this are settled with money being paid in compensation. I figured that if I put this guy in a situation where he was at risk of being lifted by the police, that he'd leave me alone and he has. I have to figure out what to do with my own neighbours though.

This is not the only instance of this. I had a landlord, a bank manager, steal my rental deposit. Her husband spoke to me and said it was because the pool electrics had been damaged while I was living there. I pointed out that they had fallen off the wall due to the wooden panel rotting from dampness. He said if I fixed it, he'd pay the deposit, so I spent a few hundred $s replacing the whole electrical system and then asked for the money back. He made all sorts of excuses, kept saying he would give it back but didn't. I then went to the police who said they wouldn't get involved, then went to the employer, a bank, and spoke to someeone, since I am on a committee of an association which is sponsored by this bank, and they said they would speak to the woman. The next thing I knew, I was being told that I had no business talking to the bank, and the landlord made up a lot of allegations of damage to the property and refused to return the money, so I gave up on it because it didn't merit going to court over.

Thing is, what you have to do when you live with people like this is to not let them get the better of you. Before all this happened my wife and I knew this is how it worked here so when we went through the inventory of stuff in the house, we cleared out anything that was not on the inventory. This included a Spalding portable basketball system worth more than the deposit.

I knew they wouldn't care about it because it was in pieces in the garden and missing a hoop but I put it together and it's now in my garden.

So, here I was, having taken what I wanted from his place, knowing he was going to screw me around and knowing I wouldn't get the money back anyway so I at least had the pleasure of harassing these people through their employers, police etc. Just tweaking them for a few months with threats and allegations against them.

It's not nice but... Most people here go to the press. One guy who runs an English language magazine wrote an article about how the previous owner of his renovation project had left the house in a terrible state etc etc. The previous owner, reading this, refused to sign some documents allowing for the new owner to carry on his renovation work. It's all "tit for tat" here.
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13-09-2017, 12:39 AM
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
(13-09-2017 12:12 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
I'd go to the police but I don't speak Turkish. The problem becomes that the locals will just lie about what happened and since they don't understand me, I can't persuade the police that I'm right.
...

D'you have a camera on your phone?

It may not make the police more likely to take any action but at least you can demonstrate that your side of the story is the correct one.

Yes

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13-09-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: Ghettoization and the Free Rider problem
I'm sorry if this is an obvious question but are you in Turkey?
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